Balk? Coming to Set...

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by LMan

Coming set is not a pitch. They are seperate actions, thus the rule to make a discernable stop before the delivery (with runners). For example, the definition of 'time of pitch' for the set position is 'when the pitcher separates his hands before delivery' (BRD)

So are you saying F1 can simulate all preliminary pitching motions up to separating the hands while off the rubber in an attempt to deceive the runner?

[Tim C]

OOOs would most assuredly call this a balk.

Regards,

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

So a pitcher is straddling the rubber and goes into his stretch, before coming to a stop he sidearms to F3 without stepping, no need he's off the rubber, and picks off R1. I guess you have nothing but an out?

And this is what the OP discussed?

Wow I must have totally misread it. Let me go back and check.

(time passes)

Nope, that's not it. nothing there about straddling the rubber. Nothing about going into a stretch. Just something about taking the rubber and coming set simultaneously, which, as we all know, by rule, is not a balk.

Did you have a point?

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by GarthB

So, if at any time, on the mound, the pitcher should join his hands, that's a balk?

Is that what you're reading into 8.05g?
I have only spoke to a pitcher simulating his stretch while off the rubber.
You take it wherever you want.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by GarthB

And this is what the OP discussed?

Wow I must have totally misread it. Let me go back and check.

(time passes)

Nope, that's not it. nothing there about straddling the rubber. Nothing about going into a stretch. Just something about taking the rubber and coming set simultaneously, which, as we all know, by rule, is not a balk.

Did you have a point?

I'm sorry. I thought the set position followed the stretch. Maybe you come set then stretch then F1 in OP was, as you assert, just fine.

BTW

RIF
OP
"R1. Pitcher is straddling the rubber while he's eyeing R1. At the same time he brings his foot to the rubber, he comes to the set position."
My empasis on "straddling the rubber"

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

Is that what you're reading into 8.05g?
I have only spoke to a pitcher simulating his stretch while off the rubber.
You take it wherever you want.

No, neither of that is true.

I have no misconceptions of what a balk is. You are the one who described the OP as a balk.

There was no discussion of simulating anything in the OP. You made the assumption that one couldn't come to the rubber set without violating 8.05(g).

You are the one who has claimed that coming to the rubber set is a balk. I'm the one who follows the rules.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

OP
"R1. Pitcher is straddling the rubber while he's eyeing R1. At the same time he brings his foot to the rubber, he comes to the set position."
My empasis on "straddling the rubber"

My error. No excuses.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

So are you saying F1 can simulate all preliminary pitching motions up to separating the hands while off the rubber in an attempt to deceive the runner?

Not unless you are saying F1 can't move the ball from the glove to his hand and back (off the rubber) without it being called a pitching motion.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by GarthB

No, neither of that is true.

I have no misconceptions of what a balk is. You are the one who described the OP as a balk.

There was no discussion of simulating anything in the OP. You made the assumption that one couldn't come to the rubber set without violating 8.05(g).

You are the one who has claimed that coming to the rubber set is a balk. I'm the one who follows the rules.

oh contraire
If you are straddling the rubber how can you possibly come set without first stretching?
When you are in the process of coming set, you are in your stretch.
If you are stretching and not on the rubber, I'd have to say that is a simulated stretch since it is not a legal one.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by LMan

Not unless you are saying F1 can't move the ball from the glove to his hand and back (off the rubber) without it being called a pitching motion.

You're conveniently avoiding the question.
It's a yes or no answer
pick one.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

oh contraire
If you are straddling the rubber how can you possibly come set without first stretching?
I know you're having trouble reading the OP but try again, it's only one sentence. When you are in the process of coming set, you are in your stretch.
If you are stretching and not on the rubber, I'd have to say that is a simulated stretch since it is not a legal one.

Oh, my God. You really don't understand the rule, do you? I thought you were just not thinking straight but would eventually get it. My mistake.

I won't interfere with your illusion any further.

Say, hi to Big Guy when you see him.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

You're conveniently avoiding the question.
It's a yes or no answer
pick one.

It's never that easy.


The proscription for an illegal quick-pitch requires a pitch to be thrown. That isn't the case here.

F1 cannot take signs off the rubber. The OP says nothing about taking signs, he says he comes set. So, that's out.

You appear to argue that the action of stepping on the rubber and coming set in one act, by itself constitutes 'simulating a pitching motion' and is balkable. This is where we disagree. If coming set were the start of the pitching motion, that is where the rules would state the time of pitch begins. It does not.

The rules DO state that F1 must have his hands separated when assuming the set....now here I think we very probably have a violation, as F1's hands probably join as he touches the rubber. The penalty is 'dont do that' in OBR.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by Tim C

OOOs would most assuredly call this a balk.

Regards,

Garth isn't the only one not reading clearly.
See post #8

I'm simply arguing the technicality of this being a balk. I specifically left the enforcement issue alone. So if you have any ability to read between the lines you would have realized I was not advocating enforcement.

Just so your name calling doesn't go for naught, what exactly does OOO stand for?

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by LMan

It's never that easy.


The proscription for an illegal quick-pitch requires a pitch to be thrown. That isn't the case here.

F1 cannot take signs off the rubber. The OP says nothing about taking signs, he says he comes set. So, that's out.

You appear to argue that the action of stepping on the rubber and coming set in one act, by itself constitutes 'simulating a pitching motion' and is balkable. This is where we disagree. If coming set were the start of the pitching motion, that is where the rules would state the time of pitch begins. It does not.

The rules DO state that F1 must have his hands separated when assuming the set....now here I think we very probably have a violation, as F1's hands probably join as he touches the rubber. The penalty is 'dont do that' in OBR.

I'm saying you cannot simulate a stretch while off the rubber, nor can you simulate being set while off the rubber. Penalty for both is a balk (with runners on)
agree or disagree?

[shickenbottom]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

I'm saying you cannot simulate a stretch while off the rubber, nor can you simulate being set while off the rubber. Penalty for both is a balk (with runners on) agree or disagree?

DM - Just reading this thread and clearly your missing something:

1st: An OOO is an Overly Officious Official - think of Deputy Barny Fife.

2nd: Please read Rule 8 of OBR. I can copy and post it here if you need, I can also copy the J/R interps of what a balk is and what are legal pitching positions.

3rd: It is not illegal to sumulate the stretch while off the rubber. If it is illegal, please post the rule reference. By the way, the stretch is not a legal pitching position. It is only a prepatory postion prior to comming Set (Legal Pitchin Position). Generally, this is accepted that the pitcher is in contact, but he doesn't have to be.

4th: It is not illegal to simulate the set postion from off the rubber. If it is illegal, please post the rule reference. 8.05g specifically states that it is illegal make any motion naturally associated with the pitch from off the rubber. Simulating a Set postion is not a pitch. The time of the pitch begins when the pitcher begins his motion.