Missed first base

[Justme]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

but from an appeal standpoint it's the same type of sitch when you're talking about making a tag versus just touching the base...

Not really.... F3 has the option of tagging the runner or touching 1B. If there's not a force at home then F2 has to tag the runner.

Let's say force play and F2 has the ball and is attempting to make a play on the runner. F2 misses the tag and the runner misses the plate but F2 then touches the plate before the runner touches the plate what would you call?

[lagunaump]

When it's a close one at first base, when is the batter-runner considered passed first base?

[LMan]

see post #14

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by lagunaump

When it's a close one at first base, when is the batter-runner considered passed first base?

Um ... when he passes it.

[Gaff]

Originally Posted by lagunaump

When it's a close one at first base, when is the batter-runner considered passed first base?

When the trailing foot has passed the bag.

[lagunaump]

Thanks LMan, mcrowder and Gaff for the 3 different answers. I guess I'll just pick one and go with it.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by lagunaump

Thanks LMan, mcrowder and Gaff for the 3 different answers. I guess I'll just pick one and go with it.

Actually ... you got the same answer 3 times.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by lagunaump

When it's a close one at first base, when is the batter-runner considered passed first base?

See post #60.

[soundedlikeastrike]

We, (newbies) to the concept as written, tend to over think this one.
I too was a skeptic when I first read it.
The reason honestly; I'd never heard, nor read it referenced "anywhere" until I saw it in JR. I'll admit, I'd read only "rule books" until 4 years ago.

The first time I walked on a baseball field with Umpires was in 1969, as a very, very, very, young player, (maybe 1 or 2 yrs. old) :') Okay, I lied and said I was 9, to get into LL...
I haven't missed a season since, either playing, coaching or umpiring. Nary one reference, or/nor witnessed account of this BR missing 1B on a close play, that I recall.

So, I feel for you guys that haven't explored the training resources out there, I was you then too..

Regardless, once I simply looked at the logistics of it, it does make sense.

You pass any base without touching it and your safe/credited with that base, until/unless, appealed.

The fact it's a force and or close should have no bearing.

The diligence is on the defense; swipe tag at HP runner gets past, but misses the plate, I signal safe on the missed tag. I would do the same in a run down, say between 1st and 2nd, he ain't really "SAFE YET" but he was "on the attempted tag", so signal safe.

Same on the force. Ex. DP ball F4 to SS at 2nd, SS clearly ghost's past 2nd coming no where close, or close for that matter, but clearly misses the bag, as soon as I see the SS miss the bag and continue on with the play, I still signal safe regardless of where R1 is, may only be 1/2 way to 2nd, he's not really safe, safe, I just called the tag attempt of the bag. Now the relay goes past F3, R1 continues on towards 3rd missing 2nd, hey the force is gone, whether he's 1 step passed or 20 steps past 2b.

Any runner that has passed any base is considered to have touched it until there is an appeal.

So the confusion stems when we consider this "FIRST BASE THING" the only difference is, your allowed to run past the bag. Okay, I can run by HP too, see no difference..
The only difference is I have to return to 1st, or do I?
No, I really don't, say R3 breaks for home and F3 throws home, I can take off for 2nd without returning to 1st, gotta be an appeal now right?

So, in nearly winding down to closing; BR misses 1st base but has passed the base, safe is the call on a throw to F3 that gets there "after the pass of the BR".
Now, F3 has the ball and is touching 1B, is that an appeal? Of course not, you must assume he's still begging for the force, safe is the right call.

Now he tags the returning runner who is still off the base? Safe is the call, F3is claiming the "runner feinted or started towards 2nd", he didn't, safe is the call.
Now, F4 while on the bag, say's but he missed it, ah, now we're getting somewhere, out on appeal. Or he tags BR while off base and says "he missed the bag" ah, almost dinner, out on appeal.

Now BR back to the bag and F3 tags him or the bag and says "I'm appealing he missed 1B". Safe, I say's. Since BR had just corrected it, ah well, that's what microwaves are for..

Base loaded winning run on 3rd, two outs.
GB to F1 who kicks it, juggles it and finally flicks a roller towards HP to F2 who's stretching for the throw, gloves the ball while toeing the plate in desperation. Meanwhile the runner is celebrating the win, with his teammates over by the dug out, even though he missed HP, what would you call?

Tell me you'd say "Safe and signal, ball game".

And not stand there making no call.

Unless, the D appealled the runner missing the base, before all had left the field that's what you have.

Don't get wrapped up in the "1B only part of this", think how you call any missed base situation.

And in offense to those that wouldn't call the last play at the plate "safe and ball game".

Remember the only non-call occurs when both Runner and Defender "know that the base was missed" and are both still "going for it"..

[mcrowder]

All good ... except we don't signal "Ballgame". Just pack up slowly and leave.

[SanDiegoSteve]

The link to this page says "Last Page." If only it were so.

[LMan]

I saw the horse twitch just a little........maybe.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

Base loaded winning run on 3rd, two outs.
GB to F1 who kicks it, juggles it and finally flicks a roller towards HP to F2 who's stretching for the throw, gloves the ball while toeing the plate in desperation. Meanwhile the runner is celebrating the win, with his teammates over by the dug out, even though he missed HP, what would you call?

Tell me you'd say "Safe and signal, ball game".

And not stand there making no call.

Unless, the D appealled the runner missing the base, before all had left the field that's what you have.

.

Again I know this is the accepted mechanic and I use it BUT
This is exactly why I feel it is wrong.
F2 is facing away from the plate waiting for the throw. F1 is obviously focused on the ball the other fielders are to far away to know if R3 touched or didn't. The only two people that can be expected to know is R3 and PU.
PU signals safe so everyone assumes the plate was touched.
If I were a coach I'd teach my kids to appeal every single time in this situation at every base, especially at 1st, I'd have my F3 tag every BR called safe. How annoying would that be? But it's the only way as the defense you're going to know.

[LMan]

Hmmmmm, can't agree completely with this.

Any D worth its salt has players/coaches not on the field watching the runners' touch of the bases, and will alert the HC for possible appeals (even if the bag was touched ). Its not like the dugout or coaches' boxes can't comment on missed bases...they do it all the time, as they should.

And, HP is (yet another) different animal. You do NOT signal safe unless the runner touched the plate. If he missed it and the tag was missed, you do nothing, await developments. I think SLAS's example is a case of the runner missing the plate, but the PU deliberately signalling 'safe' to get the game over with.

Well, that's an intergrity issue that simple mechanics cannot address. Once the PU signals 'safe' at the plate, he's safe. It's not like 1B.

[UmpJM]

LMan,

In SLAS' example, the R3 is forced home. If he beats the tag (of the base) but misses the plate, I believe the proper mechanic is for the PU to indicate SAFE!, just as he would on a BR at 1B.

JM