Missed first base

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by greymule

Did anyone cite the code in this?

In OBR, it's a missed base, but last I remember, in Fed the BR was out if he missed 1B and F3 then caught the ball. Did Fed change their rule?

Really ... so if BR misses first base and is 10 steps past, and F3 then catches the ball on the bag, based on this axiom, you rule an out?

Yes, at least when I used to do Fed.

Did you only do FED during the brief but ill-fated "Accidental Appeal" period? If so, you're right, but that ruling didn't last long, and exists in NO code that I'm aware of currently.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by BigGuy

it's because that's the way I was originally taught - runner doesn't touch base but passes it, I was taught, don't make SAFE call. Since joining this forum I have seen many say the way to do is call the runner safe, then let defense appeal the missed base. I have been trying to get clarification from some in our organization, but I haven't gotten any response. However, I am beginning to lean in the direction of the safe/appeal. I'm still not 100% convinced it's right to call a runner safe that hasn't touched the base, but I'm getting there and definitely see the logic.

You're calling him safe because he beat the throw, and is not yet out. And if the folks that taught you the mechanic would attend any clinics outside your organization, they would be educated in the way we are supposed to call this situation.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by BigGuy

If you want to call it out on appeal, fine. We don't know how close the foot on foot and ball to glove were apart. If it's bang bang, I call out. Given that,
it's because that's the way I was originally taught - runner doesn't touch base but passes it, I was taught, don't make SAFE call. Since joining this forum I have seen many say the way to do is call the runner safe, then let defense appeal the missed base. I have been trying to get clarification from some in our organization, but I haven't gotten any response. However, I am beginning to lean in the direction of the safe/appeal. I'm still not 100% convinced it's right to call a runner safe that hasn't touched the base, but I'm getting there and definitely see the logic.

BG,


This is from Evans. In most umpire's opinions this is as definitive as it gets.


“SAFE” is a declaration by the umpire that a runner is entitled to the base for which he was trying.

Professional umpires are trained to render the "safe" signal and voice declaration at first base even though the batter-runner missed the base but is considered past the base when the tag of first base is made. This becomes an appeal play and the batter-runner would subsequently be called out for failure to properly touch the base. This is the proper mechanical procedure at all bases involving force plays. On plays which require a tag, professional umpires are instructed to make no call until the runner legally touches the base or the runner is tagged before legally touching the base.


Tim.

[Tom H.]

Originally Posted by BigGuy

If you want to call it out on appeal, fine. We don't know how close the foot on foot and ball to glove were apart. If it's bang bang, I call out. Given that,
it's because that's the way I was originally taught - runner doesn't touch base but passes it, I was taught, don't make SAFE call. Since joining this forum I have seen many say the way to do is call the runner safe, then let defense appeal the missed base. I have been trying to get clarification from some in our organization, but I haven't gotten any response. However, I am beginning to lean in the direction of the safe/appeal. I'm still not 100% convinced it's right to call a runner safe that hasn't touched the base, but I'm getting there and definitely see the logic.

As Tim said: Call him 'Safe' and wait for a proper Appeal. That being said, IF the runner is past the bag and then the throw arrives --- this is a continuation of the original play (the attempt to retire BR before he reaches the base) and NOT an Appeal.
Remember, an Appeal must be an "unmistakeable act" which this throw (IMHO) is not.
Now if F3 should tag the BR before he touches the bag -- or the bag while making an Appeal (Blue! he missed the Bag!) now he is out.

This IS how it is taught.

Does it happen often? Not in my experence! Usually the BR returns to the bag before anyone even thinks about an appeal.

Originally Posted by Tom H.

As Tim said: Call him 'Safe' and wait for a proper Appeal. That being said, IF the runner is past the bag and then the throw arrives --- this is a continuation of the original play (the attempt to retire BR before he reaches the base) and NOT an Appeal.
Remember, an Appeal must be an "unmistakeable act" which this throw (IMHO) is not.
Now if F3 should tag the BR before he touches the bag -- or the bag while making an Appeal (Blue! he missed the Bag!) now he is out.

This IS how it is taught.

Does it happen often? Not in my experence! Usually the BR returns to the bag before anyone even thinks about an appeal.

Thank you. I appreciate an honest answer without the sarcasm.

[Forest Ump]

Originally Posted by Tom H.

As Tim said: Call him 'Safe' and wait for a proper Appeal. That being said, IF the runner is past the bag and then the throw arrives --- this is a continuation of the original play (the attempt to retire BR before he reaches the base) and NOT an Appeal.
Remember, an Appeal must be an "unmistakeable act" which this throw (IMHO) is not.
Now if F3 should tag the BR before he touches the bag -- or the bag while making an Appeal (Blue! he missed the Bag!) now he is out.

This IS how it is taught.

Does it happen often? Not in my experence! Usually the BR returns to the bag before anyone even thinks about an appeal.

Thanks Tom. That's the kind of information this thread needed to be complete.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by BigGuy

Simple answer, without any comment - OUT. F3 has foot on base with ball before BR touches 1B.

Really ... so if BR misses first base and is 10 steps past, and F3 then catches the ball on the bag, based on this axiom, you rule an out?

We are being overrun, fellas. No wonder Tee and the true bigdogs here no longer post.