I had a coach tell me the other day...

[harmbu]

That is team lost a run when one of his players touched a home run hitter before he touched the plate and the umpire called him out. Now, I know this is not a rule, but where can I find it in case I ever get this umpire and he attempts to make this call?

[blueump]

The "umpire" if there actually is one that would ever call this, has misapplied the player interference ruling. I actually think there is probably no such umpire, but this myth has been circulating the coaching ranks for years, and it gives them another reason to trash umpires.

[harmbu]

The out definitely was called. I just want to know how to show an umpire that this is not an out. It is hard to prove a myth to be wrong. I would like a FED reference, but am having trouble finding one.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by harmbu

The out definitely was called. I just want to know how to show an umpire that this is not an out. It is hard to prove a myth to be wrong. I would like a FED reference, but am having trouble finding one.

Look in the "a runner is out" rule -- 8-4-1 for BR and 8-4-2 for other runners. You won't find this rule, so the runner is not out.

[harmbu]

Thanks Bob. I keep looking where you pointed out. I just don't think an umpire who would make this call would believe that it is not true just because it is not there. I would expect to hear, "It's in there somewhere. You have to show me where it specifically says you can touch the runner."

[mcrowder]

I wish that coaches, when confronted with something they know is wrong, would simply protest. When they don't, they are just as much at fault as the umpire who made the wrong rule application in the first place.

[harmbu]

This is what I would do in this situation. The only problem is that in my state a protest must be settled immediately. The protesting coach has ten minutes to use the rule book or case book to show the umpire that he was wrong.

[blueump]

If this is a concern for this specific umpire, just tell your players to keep their hands to themselves until after he touches the plate!

[harmbu]

It is not a specific umpire. I do keep my kids back from the hitter. I just hate it when an OOO ruins the game because he thinks something is in the rule book even when it is not.

Thanks for all of your help, guys. I'm done with this topic.

[johnnyg08]

the only time where I would think a misunderstanding ump would call this would be the "aid or assist" provision...and on a home run...lets be serious...to the umpire who actually calls this at a level above 9 yr old ball...had better call for a police escort to get off of the field after the game he just had to forfeit due to the sh*tstorm he just started by making that crappy call.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

the only time where I would think a misunderstanding ump would call this would be the "aid or assist" provision...and on a home run...lets be serious...to the umpire who actually calls this at a level above 9 yr old ball...had better call for a police escort to get off of the field after the game he just had to forfeit due to the sh*tstorm he just started by making that crappy call.

Not just that ... reread the aid or assist provision, specifically looking for runners (as opposed to scored runners and/or coaches)

[ozzy6900]

Maybe he was thinking of the NCAA rule about only coaches may touch home run hitters. For some reason, the home run hitter is sacred and serile and may not be touched.

NCAA 5.2

d. After a home run, no offensive team member, other than the base

coaches, shall touch the batter-runner before home plate has been
touched. Team personnel, except for preceding base runners, shall not
enter the dirt circle at home plate to congratulate the batter-runner.

PENALTY for d.—After a warning for the first offense, ejection from the

contest of one of the offending players.
__________________________________________________ _________________

Of course, in FED, all players must be in the dugout or it's a team warning then the umpire can start ejecting players.

FED 3-3

ART. 1... A coach, player, substitute, attendant or other bench personnel shall not:

a. leave the dugout during a live ball for an unauthorized purpose;

PENALTY: At the end of playing action, the umpire shall issue a warning to the coach of the team involved and the next offender on that team shall be ejected, except for (f), where the coach shall be ejected. In (b), it is also obstruction (8-3-2).

__________________________________________________ ______________

Of course, as you can see, the runner is never called out in either rule. So there is the proof that you need to take to the umpire for his education.

Oh I almost forgot, OBR has nothing for this so the suggestion is to use the FED rule (good luck trying).

Regards

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by harmbu

The out definitely was called. I just want to know how to show an umpire that this is not an out. It is hard to prove a myth to be wrong. I would like a FED reference, but am having trouble finding one.

You're trying to prove a negative. Ask the ump to show you where it says the runner is out.

[BretMan]

The FED rule posted above doesn't fit here, as it is referring to participants leaving the dugout during a live ball- which you don't have following a home run.

Refer to FED Case Book, 3.2.2A.

This case play makes it clear that a base coach touching a runner following a home run is not a violation.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Maybe he was thinking of the NCAA rule about only coaches may touch home run hitters. For some reason, the home run hitter is sacred and serile and may not be touched.

[/B]

I almost posted this rule yesterday. It *used* to be the NCAA rule that the batter was out if he was touched. That might be the source of the umpire's confusion. That rule has been changed for several (5-7) years now.