Unusual occurence in April 28th Baltimore-Cleveland game

[Rich]

Originally Posted by lawump

I wasn't going to post this, but now I am. It really doesn't affect anyone's analysis of the Cleveland/Baltimore game, but it is an example of how some NCAA Division 1 umpires handled this exact situation.

I was umpiring at an early season non-conference Division 1 tournament. (In a city that has 3 Division 1 teams...who were all jointly co-hosting the tournament with a bunch of northern teams).

Anyways, at my ballpark I was sitting in the press box watching a game with my crew (we had the next game). (We were in the press box (1) because our locker room was in the lower level of the press box tower, and (2) except for the SID staff running the scoreboard and PA, it was empty and we'd rather watch a game than sit in the locker room).

While watching the game, the exact same play as the Baltimore/Cleveland play happened. The home plate umpire waived off a run that crossed well before the out at first was recorded. In fact, he scored so far in advance of the out at first, that the offensive team didn't even see him waive off the run because they had moved on to watching the play at first.

Anyways, nobody says a thing at that time. The SID staff (in the press box) doesn't put the run on the scoreboard. The SID actually says, "I think that's wrong" and looks to us. We immediately act like we're in a deep discussion of what's better: Star Wars or Star Trek?

Next half inning is played without anything being said. Before the next half inning (when the offensive team described above is about to bat again) the offensive coach comes out to tell the umpires that "the scoreboard is wrong,"...not that the umpire screwed up in waiving off the run (He had no clue the umpire had done so), but that the scoreboard was "missing a run last inning." The coach said that they scored two runs in the sixth, and not one as shown on the scoreboard.

The umpires get together. The crew chief (long-time college guy) tells his crew (as told to me in the locker room after the game), "I have one run scoring early in the inning, and one on the double-play so it should be two." The other base umpire agrees. The plate umpire says, "no the run on the double play does not score." The crew chief said, "what, you waived the run off?"

At this point, the crew chief thinks the plate umpire just made a bad JUDGMENT call. The plate umpire responded, "yeah, a run can't score on a play in which the third out is made at first base." The crew chief and other umpire quickly correct him.

They then called out the coaches and said the scoreboard was wrong and that they were putting the run on the board. The other team's coach mildly protested (the game was a blow-out, and he was winning big). The crew chief in defending his decition to put the run on the board stated, "the run had scored legally. Once a run scores, a runner can't do anything to take away that run. He scored legally, we can't take it away, so we're putting it on the board."

The crew chief said it with enough legalese mumbo-jumbo to convince the defensive coach and the game finished without incident, (and the defensive team still won by A LOT).

After the game, in the locker room, the crew chief lit into his plate guy...as he should have. I, however, being a veteran(not as much as the crew chief) told the crew chief he was wrong for putting the run on the board when he did. We got into a spirited (not nasty, just spirited) debate about whether they could put the run on the board when they did. In the end we decided: that he should never have been in that position and that the plate guy owed everyone a beer after our game.

You'll forgive me, but as a lowly D3/HS umpire I have to ask:

How the hell does this happen? It's a rule that second year Little League umpires know.

Will they ever announce the ruling on the protest?

[lawump]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

You'll forgive me, but as a lowly D3/HS umpire I have to ask:

How the hell does this happen? It's a rule that second year Little League umpires know.

Don't ask me: I think I learned this the second week of umpire school.

[UMP25]

Upon reading the many people who are adamant that MLB should uphold this protest, I wonder if these same people are aware of the three possible outcomes of a protest. Pursuant to MLB's policy, when a protest is filed, it is:

1. Denied
2. Upheld, but game stands as played (i.e., nothing happens)
3. Upheld, game is replayed from point of protest (this is interesting, because in this specific situation, is not the "point of protest" a time later than when the actual infraction occurred? "Point of protest" is the policy mainly because it coincides with the time of the rules infraction if/when the protest is filed before the next pitch or play, yada...yada...yada)

[Jurassic Referee]

MLB denied the protest today- no reason given.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/b...orts-headlines

[Durham]

Score one for the good guys.

[PeteBooth]

How is this - score one for the good guys.

I would like to see what would have happened in the 7th game of the World Series - Game Tied after 9 complete innings, all of a sudden the umpires 'go back" and put a run on the Board = game Over.

What happened here is what happens many times in Corporate America. It's called CYA.


Pete Booth

[Durham]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

How is this - score one for the good guys.

I would like to see what would have happened in the 7th game of the World Series - Game Tied after 9 complete innings, all of a sudden the umpires 'go back" and put a run on the Board = game Over.

What happened here is what happens many times in Corporate America. It's called CYA.


Pete Booth

Pete,

Just one question! Did the runner cross the plate before the out at 1st?

If no, they screwed up.

If yes, they got it right.

Is it that hard?

Opps, that is two questions.

[waltjp]

The umps kicked this one - twice. The first mistake was not knowing the rule - inexcusable for anyone calling any game above t-ball level. The second mistake was adding the run. The misapplication of the rule occurred in the top of the third inning when Baltimore's run was disallowed. (I don't think anyone is claiming this was a judgment call.) Baltimore should have protested at that point. They didn't.

Now, after thinking it over the umps decide that they kicked it and want to correct it. Basically they decided, 'we screwed up but Baltimore didn't catch it so let's fix if for them.' Bad decision. And bad ruling by MLB.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Upon reading the many people who are adamant that MLB should uphold this protest, I wonder if these same people are aware of the three possible outcomes of a protest. Pursuant to MLB's policy, when a protest is filed, it is:

IMO, I think most are adament because the ruling from major league baseball could have an adverse effect on all of us amateurs.

Look at the impact on the overhyped "getting the call right" on a 2 person crew.

I realize major league baseball stands alone but if the protest is NOT upheld get ready for the floodgates and a change in the appeal rules. If the protest is not upheld then in effect major league baseball is saying you can appeal any misapplication of a rule anytime during the game and also retroactively put runs on / off the board.

IMO I do not think most are interested in what major league baseball will ultimately do but that the protest is upheld because you do not have 'all day" to appeal.

Pete Booth