Asked on another forum

[FTVMartin]

If it is not a play on a runner, it sounds like a pitch so Ball would be correct. Slightly different than throwing to an unoccupied base.

[justanotherblue]

It's often thought that one can't balk to second base. Well, you can, Unlike throwing to first, the pitcher can step toward second and throw to either F4 or F6. The key is his step. If he didn't step toward second, he balked. If he did, it's nothing. You have a runner on second, so he's not throwing to an unoccupied base. No ball.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by justanotherblue

It's often thought that one can't balk to second base. Well, you can, Unlike throwing to first, the pitcher can step toward second and throw to either F4 or F6. The key is his step. If he didn't step toward second, he balked. If he did, it's nothing. You have a runner on second, so he's not throwing to an unoccupied base. No ball.

But I bet you would get a pretty good argument from a coach.
Are you gonna bring up the "45 degree rule" on either side?

[johnnyg08]

Distance and Direction is one aspect of balk/no balk as well as what the other guys on here are saying except for the "crews who know baseball" and called a "ball." WTF?? Hmmmm...probably why it showed up on a basketball thread. Hey, ask a Basketball ref...I bet they know...

Legal play in OBR

[BktBallRef]

David, I didn't speak to anyone. It's not my question. I simply copied and pasted from another forum.

Johnny, the question wasn't asked on a basketball forum. It was asked on an "Ask the Ref?" forum. I answer questions for football and basketball. For other sports that I don't officiate, I ask the experts if it's something I'm not certain about. I didn't realize that you expected a Baksetball official to change his user name when he posts on the Baseball board. Either way, there's no need for you to be an a$$hole.

I appreciate those who responded with an intelligent reply. It was an NFHS game.

[johnnyg08]

sorry b-ball guy...didn't mean to come off as what you called me...just that a lot of people on this board ask for opinions then don't want to at least listen to the answers provided. rough morning for me. thanks for your question...congrats on 10,000 posts.

[Tim C]

This will be my last post to this thread (I know some of you are already getting happier):

Please stick with me while I go through this yet another time.

There is a difference between balking TO second base and balking with a runner ON second base.

All the normal technical balks can be made with a runner ON second base (i.e dropping the ball when getting into the set position or failing to make a stop somewhere during the pitching motion). That is not an arguement.

SDS feels that any balk made while a runner ON second base is a balk TO second. He would be considered correct by many (including Jim Evans).

In my discussion with Evans (with Garth B present) we covered the following possibilities that eventually end in legal plays or balks that involve a runner at second base:

1) No one will argue that when pitcher turns to second while in contact with the pitcher's plate he is not required to throw,

2) No one will argue that when a pitcher turns to second that throws make he makes does not have go to the base, he can throw to any fielder located at any location.

3) No one will argue that since the pitcher does not, by rule, need to throw to second on any pickoff attempt we know that the regulations involving a "feint" are also moot.

So let's get to the real issue.

When does the pitcher not gain ground on an attempt and how does this impact my statement?

Play:

F1 is in the set position. Ball is in his glove at his belt. He takes NO STEP in any direction and simply flips the ball back to second base. He has BALKED!

The balk, however, is for failing to complete the pitch NOT a balk for failing to gain direction.

Evans agrees that in an essence my statement is correct. Where the two of us disagree is WHY the statement is made.

We use, IIITBTSB, to help umpires recognize that second and third base are different than first base. We also use the statement to help umpire understand that there is a difference in pitching regulations between second base and third base.

For the last 10 years both Carl Childress and I have asked for anyone to give us an example of "a balk to second base." No one has ever sent us an example.

I am just as correct to say "It Is Impossible To Balk To Second Base" as I am to say "and Jim Evans agrees with me."

Evans agrees with the statement but says that I am wrong to TEACH THAT WAY!

And with this post I will slide back into my cave and drop off the posting lists yet again.

I remain,

"The Notorious Thread Deleter"

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by FTVMartin

If it is not a play on a runner, it sounds like a pitch so Ball would be correct. Slightly different than throwing to an unoccupied base.

What???? Rules citation, please.