Asked for help on this play.

[nickrego]

This happened in a game last week.

Adult League, I'm BU.

No outs, No runners.

Batter hits a slow grounder to F6. Very easy / routine play (I just jinxed myself). So I take a couple of steps into fair territory and wait for the throw.

F6 bobbles the ball, then rushes the throw. The throw pulls F3 off the bag to wards Home Plate, and behind the runner. F3 catches the ball, and makes a vertical tag motion at the runner. Well, even though I tried leaning in to see, I was totally blocked out by the runner, because of the vertical tag motion.

Fortunately, my partner was following the runner up the line, like he should be, and was right there. I pointed to him and asked, "did you see a tag ?" He replied, "Yes, I saw a tag." I then called the runner out.

For you new umpires...Notice I didn't ask my partner to make MY call. I asked him a specific question, to help ME make MY call. If he hadn't been in position, I would not have asked him, and I would have called the runner based on what I saw (probably safe).

Why would I have called him safe ? Two reasons:

1. I didn't see the tag touch the runner.
2. It was a routine play that was botched by the defense. If I have to guess, I'm not going to reward them for a play like that.

[aceholleran]

... and what mechanic did your pard use to give you the help? Just curious.

Ace

[socalblue1]

Originally Posted by aceholleran

... and what mechanic did your pard use to give you the help? Just curious.

Ace

PU would have NO mechanic - up to BU to ask (More or less a reverse of a check-swing strike).

Many folks subscribe to using some type of signal (Hand to chect, etc) for an umpire to inform his partner that he has information for him.

[aceholleran]

Let me be more lucid: What signal did your partner give to you after you asked for help? Was it just a verbal?

Ace

[ajjl22]

PU should only give a verbal answer to the question, he should not say safe or out. It is the BU responsibility to make the safe or out signal, PU is just helping him make his decision.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Ace, if you read carefully, you'll see that he asked him if he saw a tag. He replied, "Yes, I saw a tag." Then Nick made the out call. So from that, you can tell that his partner did not hand signal, because it wasn't his call.

[nickrego]

Originally Posted by aceholleran

Let me be more lucid: What signal did your partner give to you after you asked for help? Was it just a verbal?

Ace

Yes. Just the verbal I stated in my post.

[RPatrino]

I had one like that this weekend. I'm in the C position, grounder to F6 and throw pulls F3 up and towards the foul line. I see no foot on the bag, and the F3 swipe tags BR. I DO NOT see a tag and I yell, " SAFE, no tag, no tag". I do not go to my partner because I clearly saw no tag.

Defensive coach asks for time and approach's me. He says, " I know you couldn't see my F3's foot from where you where, but I think your partner did, can you ask him if he held the bag?" ( I about dirtied my drawers, the coach was reasonable and made perfect sense!!") So, I called my partner over and we discussed it, and F3 did hold the bag, on the side opposite where I could see it. I banged the runner out.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

I had one like that this weekend. I'm in the C position, grounder to F6 and throw pulls F3 up and towards the foul line. I see no foot on the bag, and the F3 swipe tags BR. I DO NOT see a tag and I yell, " SAFE, no tag, no tag". I do not go to my partner because I clearly saw no tag.

Defensive coach asks for time and approach's me. He says, " I know you couldn't see my F3's foot from where you where, but I think your partner did, can you ask him if he held the bag?" ( I about dirtied my drawers, the coach was reasonable and made perfect sense!!") So, I called my partner over and we discussed it, and F3 did hold the bag, on the side opposite where I could see it. I banged the runner out.

Good job of going to your partner and getting the call right. When you saw there was no foot on the bag, and then no tag, the proper call should have been, "Safe, he's off the base" with a sweeping arm motion to the direction of the pulled foot (allegedly), followed by the "No tag" call.

Just being nit-picky.

[RPatrino]

Steve, my assumption was since the F3 attempted a sweep tag, that even HE thought he didn't have the bag. Soooo, absent a sweep tag, I agree, the correct call is "Safe, he's off the bag".

In your scenario, should I have given both?? "Safe, he's off the bag, he missed the tag and he's ugly too"???? HEHEHE

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

Steve, my assumption was since the F3 attempted a sweep tag, that even HE thought he didn't have the bag. Soooo, absent a sweep tag, I agree, the correct call is "Safe, he's off the bag".

In your scenario, should I have given both?? "Safe, he's off the bag, he missed the tag and he's ugly too"???? HEHEHE

Verbal: "Safe, off the base (with arm signals), no tag!" You don't need to get wordy about it at all. Only takes 3 or 4 seconds total from start to finish, and it looks sharp. You might have even sold the call so well that the coach may not have even argued to begin with.

[RPatrino]

Good Ideas!! I was doomed, the F2 clearly saw the F3 foot on the base, the coach was coming out regardless of what I said.