Asked on another forum

[BktBallRef]

The latest baseball question from another forum:

"Man on second. Pitcher toes the rubber wheels and throws the ball directly to the second baseman playing straight away. No one ever moved to cover second, appeared to be a set play where the pitcher throws to a position player instead of the bag to get the runner to break for third. The umpire call a ball . I have heard from some pretty knowledgable baseball people that it should have been a balk because of the intention to deceive to a ball as the umpire called to not calling anything. BTW the crew calling the game last nite said the umpire made the correct call in calling a ball. What is the correct call?"

Thanks fellas.

[FTVMartin]

If it is not a play on a runner, it sounds like a pitch so Ball would be correct. Slightly different than throwing to an unoccupied base.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

The latest baseball question from another forum:

"Man on second. Pitcher toes the rubber wheels and throws the ball directly to the second baseman playing straight away. No one ever moved to cover second, appeared to be a set play where the pitcher throws to a position player instead of the bag to get the runner to break for third. The umpire call a ball . I have heard from some pretty knowledgable baseball people that it should have been a balk because of the intention to deceive to a ball as the umpire called to not calling anything. BTW the crew calling the game last nite said the umpire made the correct call in calling a ball. What is the correct call?"

Thanks fellas.

What rules?

Legal in OBR.

[justanotherblue]

It's often thought that one can't balk to second base. Well, you can, Unlike throwing to first, the pitcher can step toward second and throw to either F4 or F6. The key is his step. If he didn't step toward second, he balked. If he did, it's nothing. You have a runner on second, so he's not throwing to an unoccupied base. No ball.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by FTVMartin

If it is not a play on a runner, it sounds like a pitch so Ball would be correct. Slightly different than throwing to an unoccupied base.

What???? Rules citation, please.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

The latest baseball question from another forum:

"Man on second. Pitcher toes the rubber wheels and throws the ball directly to the second baseman playing straight away. No one ever moved to cover second, appeared to be a set play where the pitcher throws to a position player instead of the bag to get the runner to break for third. The umpire call a ball . I have heard from some pretty knowledgable baseball people that it should have been a balk because of the intention to deceive to a ball as the umpire called to not calling anything. BTW the crew calling the game last nite said the umpire made the correct call in calling a ball. What is the correct call?"

Thanks fellas.

What Rich said, and asked.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

The latest baseball question from another forum:

"Man on second. Pitcher toes the rubber wheels and throws the ball directly to the second baseman playing straight away. No one ever moved to cover second, appeared to be a set play where the pitcher throws to a position player instead of the bag to get the runner to break for third. The umpire call a ball . I have heard from some pretty knowledgable baseball people that it should have been a balk because of the intention to deceive to a ball as the umpire called to not calling anything. BTW the crew calling the game last nite said the umpire made the correct call in calling a ball. What is the correct call?"

Thanks fellas.

It's legal as long as the step is to an occupied base. The only base where the throw must be TO THE BASE is first.

[tibear]

As stated earlier, this is perfectlly legal in OBR.

The pitcher can throw to any player not on a base. The rule says the pitcher cannot throw to an unoccupied base but says nothing about throwing to a teammate who is not on a base.

[SAump]

Not a balk: Rules do not allow a feint to 1B and do require a direct throw towards 1B. Rules do allow feints which do not require a throw to other bases.

Not a ball: Who would call a ball in this situation and why? There is nothing in the rules to penalize a poorly attempted legal play by the defense. The runner would be free to advance at his own risk.

That's legal: This play falls between a feint/no throw and a poorly attempted pickoff. However, it would also be hard to believe that it was designed to deceive the runner. Play would resume, as normal.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

The latest baseball question from another forum:

"Man on second. Pitcher toes the rubber wheels and throws the ball directly to the second baseman playing straight away. No one ever moved to cover second, appeared to be a set play where the pitcher throws to a position player instead of the bag to get the runner to break for third. The umpire call a ball . I have heard from some pretty knowledgable baseball people that it should have been a balk because of the intention to deceive to a ball as the umpire called to not calling anything. BTW the crew calling the game last nite said the umpire made the correct call in calling a ball. What is the correct call?"

Thanks fellas.

Think about it this way ... as long as he stepped toward 2nd, he didn't have to throw the ball AT ALL ... so why would there be a penalty for throwing it to a fielder?

[David B]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

The latest baseball question from another forum:

"Man on second. Pitcher toes the rubber wheels and throws the ball directly to the second baseman playing straight away. No one ever moved to cover second, appeared to be a set play where the pitcher throws to a position player instead of the bag to get the runner to break for third. The umpire call a ball . I have heard from some pretty knowledgable baseball people that it should have been a balk because of the intention to deceive to a ball as the umpire called to not calling anything. BTW the crew calling the game last nite said the umpire made the correct call in calling a ball. What is the correct call?"

Thanks fellas.

The other guys gave the correct ruling - its nothing.

My confusion is that you have two umpiring crews who actually said that calling a ball on the batter was the correct call???

That's nuts. So the "pretty knowledgable baseball people" that you spoke of might need to get in their books a little more.

I would be really really curious as to which rules they actually thought might apply to this situation to call it a ball.

Thanks
David

[SAump]

Originally Posted by justanotherblue

It's often thought that one can't balk to second base. Well, you can, Unlike throwing to first, the pitcher can step toward second and throw to either F4 or F6. The key is his step. If he didn't step toward second, he balked. If he did, it's nothing. You have a runner on second, so he's not throwing to an unoccupied base. No ball.

But I bet you would get a pretty good argument from a coach.
Are you gonna bring up the "45 degree rule" on either side?

[johnnyg08]

Distance and Direction is one aspect of balk/no balk as well as what the other guys on here are saying except for the "crews who know baseball" and called a "ball." WTF?? Hmmmm...probably why it showed up on a basketball thread. Hey, ask a Basketball ref...I bet they know...

Legal play in OBR

[BktBallRef]

David, I didn't speak to anyone. It's not my question. I simply copied and pasted from another forum.

Johnny, the question wasn't asked on a basketball forum. It was asked on an "Ask the Ref?" forum. I answer questions for football and basketball. For other sports that I don't officiate, I ask the experts if it's something I'm not certain about. I didn't realize that you expected a Baksetball official to change his user name when he posts on the Baseball board. Either way, there's no need for you to be an a$$hole.

I appreciate those who responded with an intelligent reply. It was an NFHS game.

[Tim C]

Justanotherblue wrote:

"It's often thought that one can't balk to second base. Well, you can, . . ."

It Is Impossible To Balk TO Second Base.