Missed Base Appeal

[tibear]

Here's a question from my clinic this past weekend:

A two-out bases-loaded drive carries over the right fielder's head and three runs score while the batter advances to third. En route, however, he misses second base. Once the play ends, the shortstop calls for the ball, touches second and appeals. How many runs score and why?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by tibear

Here's a question from my clinic this past weekend:

A two-out bases-loaded drive carries over the right fielder's head and three runs score while the batter advances to third. En route, however, he misses second base. Once the play ends, the shortstop calls for the ball, touches second and appeals. How many runs score and why?

3

It's a time play.

[tibear]

Let's just say the answer they gave is 2 and I'm still not sure why.

[greymule]

Let's just say the answer they gave is 2 and I'm still not sure why.

Are you sure you got the question right? That type of question usually involves either (1) the runner from 1B missing 3B and the BR "scoring" behind him, where an appeal would then nullify the last 2 runs, and the first 2 runs would score, or (2) the runner from 1B missing 2B, where no runs would score because of the 3rd-out force.

In the play you cite, scoring only 2 on the BR missing 2B makes no sense whatsoever. Every code would score 3 runs on that play.

[tibear]

Originally Posted by greymule

Let's just say the answer they gave is 2 and I'm still not sure why.

Are you sure you got the question right? That type of question usually involves either (1) the runner from 1B missing 3B and the BR "scoring" behind him, where an appeal would then nullify the last 2 runs, and the first 2 runs would score, or (2) the runner from 1B missing 2B, where no runs would score because of the 3rd-out force.

In the play you cite, scoring only 2 on the BR missing 2B makes no sense whatsoever. Every code would score 3 runs on that play.

I've typed in the question exactly as written and I agree with you, those are the typical questions.

The clinician indicated that since it was second base that was missed only the first two runs would score because only the first two runners would have crossed home before the BR reached second. I said that it doesn't matter, this was a timing play and not a force so any runs that score before the third out call would count. However, again he insisted and the answer key he had said that only two runs scored. ???????

[UMP25]

tibear, his answer is wrong. Simply put, when an appeal of a missed base is made for the final out, all runners who preceded the appealed runner will score provided they touched or passed home before the appeal itself occurred--this is what's meant as a "time" play. Therefore, score three runs here. Period.

Had the final appeal out been a force out situation, or the batter not reaching or touching first base, zero runs score.

[greymule]

The clinician indicated that since it was second base that was missed only the first two runs would score because only the first two runners would have crossed home before the BR reached second.

That claim is patently idiotic on its face. The runner from 2B is almost always across home plate by the time a BR is thrown out at 2B.

But yes, now that you mention it, I've also heard that rationale. I derives from stickball and wiffle ball, where you might have only 2 on a side and be forced to use invisible runners. If the human is tagged out at 2B for the 3rd out, the invisible runner from 2B doesn't score.

Also, ball goes over that tree branch, single. Ball goes in the pool, two bases. Ball hits the roof, 3 bases. These are the clinicians you're dealing with.

A few years ago, I had to re-educate some players who thought that if Abel is on 3B and Baker on 2B with 2 out, and Charles hits a single and is then thrown out trying for 2B, only Abel scores. Somehow they had gotten the idea that with Charles not advancing 2 bases, Baker isn't allowed to score.

But your "clinician" is 100% wrong.

Please let us know what else he said during your clinic. I suspect it might be entertaining.

[tibear]

Originally Posted by greymule

Please let us know what else he said during your clinic. I suspect it might be entertaining.

Because I was the only level 3 umpire in the class with many lower level umpires, the clinician wanted me to show the class how I would handle a coach coming out and discussing one of my calls. Of course I thought he would question a rule interpretation or a missed tag or something but he stomps over and says, "You called that a strike!" I immediately said, "Coach, you're not questioning balls and strikes are you? I wouldn't want to eject you from your own clinic!"