play at the plate

[coach2535]

Hey guys, can someone please clarify this rule. 10U USSSA tournament, fly ball to center, ball caught-runner at 3rd tags. Catcher is positioned about 4 feet up the line towards 3rd, the throw is perfect and catcher is waiting for the runner. The runner approaches catcher and jumps over the top of him, flipping and landing on home plate untouched. PU signals safe, then confers with BU and calls runner out. PU stated "runner has to slide". However the rule does not state that; The rule is 8.07.G and it states, “the runner must slide or seek to avoid contact”. Game was played under protest and the director of USSSA for our region stated The words “seek to avoid contact” are interpreted by the National Rules Committee as going “around” not “over” the catcher. This is taken from the National Federation of High School’s Baseball Rules. It’s a simple safety issue.
Whats the call guys, is he safe or out?

[2rad4u]

I would have him out for jumping over the catcher.

[TwoBits]

As of 2006, there was nothing in the USSSA rules saying it was illegal to leap over a defensive player. There is also nothing regarding that in OBR, which is what USSSA plays under. In FED, leaping or jumping a player not lying on the ground is illegal.

So unless there has been a USSSA rule change since last fall, I would say your regional director has misinterpreted the rule, especially if he has brought the FED rule book into the picture.

However, since he is the regional director, can he technically be wrong?

[2rad4u]

I umpire USSSA tournaments and I have a 11U USSSA team. Believe me, he would be out around here.

We do use OBR for most rules, but do mix in some FED rules dealing with subs (re-entry) and safety (hurdling players and malicious contact).

If one of my 11 year olds hurdled a catcher in the way described above, I would not argue when he's called out. My kids know either slide or avoid contact.

[TwoBits]

"I umpire USSSA tournaments and I have a 11U USSSA team. Believe me, he would be out around here."


Is it because umpires in your area are ignorant of USSSA rules or is it because they just feel that calling the kid out is the right thing to do?

[2rad4u]

Like I said, we use some Fed rules and SAFETY is priority one with the younger kids. Remember, the original poster said 10U.

I don't think that is ignorant.

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by 2rad4u

Like I said, we use some Fed rules and SAFETY is priority one with the younger kids. Remember, the original poster said 10U.

I don't think that is ignorant.

10U uses the same safety rules in USSSA baseball as 18U.

Here's my point, and it's not just limited to this particular situation: If we, as umpires, start making up rules and pulling rules from different codes, then we are doing a disservice to all umpires that follow the rules. How many times have you heard a coach say, "Well, in our last game, the umpires let us...", or, "In our last game, the umpires called it this way..."

If your local league has special rules about certain situations, then by all means, support those rules. But leave them there in that league and don't apply them elsewhere.

And to the original writer of the question: Sorry to hijack your thread, but this is something that bothers me and I see it everywhere.

[kylejt]

[QUOTE=2rad4u]

We do use OBR for most rules, but do mix in some FED rules dealing with subs (re-entry) and safety (hurdling players and malicious contact).

QUOTE]


How does that work? USSSA doesn't specifically states this, so is it a local rule? One your umpire association came up with?

[PeteBooth]

The aforementioned is a BIG problem when doing these type tournaments UNLESS the rules are EXPLICiTLY stated.

Many youth organizations say (and i get a kick out of this) we play by PRO rules, however, most of us no that to be false.

According to the USSSA website, they use OBR. I cannot find a No malicious contact rule ala FEd or even a No Colission rule ala NCAA. It seems as though this is an area by area 'thing"

Most argue that LL, PONY , USSA, Babe Ruth, etc. are OBR based. With the exception of LL, I find that not to be true as evidenced by your thread.

IMO, this is turning out to be an area by area ruling. With the exception of LL, IMO it's safe to say that many of these type youth organizations are now using a Hybrid of rules and their web-sites need to be updated.

Whenever my assignior gets a tournament to schedule, we ask for the "house rules" so to speak. In my experiences I have found that many have adopted the FED DH Rule, FED batting restrictions (meaning -3) and the No malicious Contact rule EVEN though their particular web-sites do not give out this info.

Since your director said

"This is taken from the National Federation of High School’s Baseball Rules"

the runner would be declared out for hurdling over F2, plain and simple.

Rules which say “the runner must slide or seek to avoid contact”. are vague in nature and subject to many different interpretations. It's my gut that many of these organizations will become closer to FED/NCAA in the future and hopefully their specific Web-sites are updated accordingly.

For example; Legion does use OBR however, they have also adopted a hybrid of rules. American Legion uses the FED FPSR and the FED DH rule (for the jr. program) and uses the NCAA No Colission rule. Tese are "spelled out" on their Web-site, therefore if USSA is adopting some of FED rules, then their web-site should be updated similar to the American Legion Web-site

Bottom Line: get the "house Rules" before you step on the field.

Pete Booth

[2rad4u]

Well said, Pete.

[ozzy6900]

"Mixed rules" do nothing but confuse everyone. Your situation is paramount to this. In OBR, it is legal to hurdle a fielder where in FED is is illegal. This is why I do not deal with organizations that ba$tardize the rule books.

[2rad4u]

Well, none of us are confused. It ain't that hard to understand.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by 2rad4u

Well, none of us are confused. It ain't that hard to understand.

Really? Then why not post the USSSA rule reference that shows how to make the call? So far, no one has been able to do this in this thread! We all know the FED says no, the runner cannot hurdle a fielder unless the fielder is prone. We all know that OBR says nothing about it. We all know that LL doesn't allow it either. So pray tell, enlighten us to the USSSA BS rule, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

[2rad4u]

Originally Posted by PWL

Was this a baseball game or a kung fu movie?

That's pretty funny.


Hey, I don't make the rules, I enforce the rules our association wants me to. I don't see a problem with making safety a priority. Hurdling a player is un-safe, so, you're out! Besides, in all my years I haven't had to call it, so it's a non-issue with me. I've had my share of malicious contact, but no hurdling.

It might be because they teach the kids properly.

[bossman72]

This is why i loathe sub-college leagues that play with modified pro rules.

Use the fed book- it's made for younger players.