play at the plate

[a1umpire]

I have been an umpire for many years in N.C. doing USSSA baseball we never go by Fed.rules.We go by the USSSA rules and anything not covered in those rules goes back to the OBR rules. Therefore it is leagle to hurdle the catcher.I have had this happen a few times and always called them safe.We never EVER go by the Fed. book.

[Old Time Ump]

2Rad4U, I dont mean to depart from the thread here, but are you under the impression that sliding is 'safer' than hurdling? For whom? The percentage of broken and sprained ankles incurred by young men sliding is many times greater than those injured hurdling. And more severe. Pursue this with the insurance company who handles your high school and /or municipal insurance.

[PeteBooth]

[Pursue this with the insurance company who handles your high school and /or municipal insurance.

[/QUOTE]

Apparantly FED did that's why it's illegal to hurdle (unless a player is lying on the ground) in a FED game. If it was not an insurance issue the rule would not exist.

While there can be injuries sliding, one can get seriously injured by hurdling.
Let's take a play at the plate, the kid hurdles, but F2 applies the tag and since the kid is in mid air, he could land on his back, neck area causing serious damage.


Pete Booth

[DG]

I just hate it when folks mix and match, and then complain that the umps don't know THE RULES.

[Dave Reed]

...just this year, and only recently added to the website. You can see them at http://http://www.usssabaseball.org/...les.Jan.19.pdf

Look at rule 8.07.G. It references "slide or seek to avoid contact". It also includes the phrase "Malicious contact shall supercede all obstruction penalties."
I don't see hurdling explicitly mentioned, but clearly the inspiration for this aspect of the rules is FED. So call the hurdler out!

[UmpJM]

Dave R.,

Look at rule 8.07.G. It references "slide or seek to avoid contact". It also includes the phrase "Malicious contact shall supercede all obstruction penalties."
I don't see hurdling explicitly mentioned, but clearly the inspiration for this aspect of the rules is FED. So call the hurdler out!

Hmmm,

Interesting train of thought.

If I'm following your logic correctly, if hurling had been explicitly mentioned, you would suggest calling the runner safe. Yes?

Or, alternatively, perhaps you would suggest that the FED "gorilla balk" rule should be strictly enforced for USSSA games?

Anyway, I'm not buyin' it.

Is "hurdling" a fielder kinda "risky"? Sure. Baseball can be a dangerous game. But, it certainly ain't malicious contact. And, under the USSSA ruleset, it's certainly not illegal.

Leave making up rules to coaches.

JM

[Dave Reed]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

If I'm following your logic correctly, if hurling had been explicitly mentioned, you would suggest calling the runner safe. Yes?
Or, alternatively, perhaps you would suggest that the FED "gorilla balk" rule should be strictly enforced for USSSA games?
JM

If hurdling were explicitly mentioned, I would suggest calling safe or out according to the directive of the rule.

Your alternative inference regarding "gorilla balk" isn't appropriate either: the USSSA pitching rules (8.08) are very closely copied from OBR, and do not resemble FED rules.

USSSA rules are a combination of at least two rulesets. We all know that the rules alone aren't sufficient-- that's why we have casebooks and umpire manuals. When an umpire is trying to decide if a particular action by a runner meets the requirement to "seek to avoid contact", he can't use OBR concepts, because "seeking to avoid contact" or "malicious contact" isn't part of those rules. He should invoke FED concepts, because that is the origination of this particular rule. Note that FED does not have a rule against hurdling, but rulebook comments and the casebook describe it as an illegal attempt to avoid unless the fielder is prone.

Neither I nor a coach is making up a rule regarding hurdling; the proper question here is whether the FED casebok ruling and rulebook comments should apply to USSSA games. I submit that this part of the USSSA rules derives from FED rules, and not OBR, and the intrepretations should be consistent with FED.