Definition of an Umpire

[LLPA13UmpDan]

Originally Posted by Justme

Dan,

Tell me and please be truthful:

1. How do you feel when you walk on the field?

2. Do you feel 'powerful' and 'in charge'? Maybe a feeling that you've never had at home?

3. How does it make you feel when you eject a coach? A chance to boss around an adult?

4. What is your opinion of the coaches before a game? Are they out to show you up? Maybe they're going to cheat to win? Are they just another adult that has power over kids? What do you think?

5. When you 'kick' a call how does that make you feel? Maybe just part of the game and the coaches will just have to live with it?

6. How do you feel when you 'kick' a call and the coach comes out to talk to you about it because it cost him a run or was just so bad that everyone in the house saw it but you? Do you think here comes an adult to holler at me, I'll show him?

1. When I walk on the field, I feel I need to call a game properly and ensure everyones safety, and to get along with the coaches and managers.

2. No, I do not feel powerful or "in charge". I'm there to umpire, coaches and mangers are here to coach and manage, and players are here to play. I only use my "Powers" when duty calls.

3. No, when i eject a coach or manager, it is not because i am on a power trip, it is because they did something they are not supposed to. I don't do it just because "i can boss around an adult". When i go to the field, it is now umpire/coach/manager/player, not child/adult. We all need to do what we should be doing.

4. I think highly of coaches, and I respect them. It is not a personal feeling, its an volunteer to volunteer relationship. I try to get along with them.

5. When I know i kicked a call, I do feel bad about it, but I continue on and do the best i can as an umpire. If someone wishes to chew me out about it, fine. I'll listen to it, and do my best.

6. Again, this one goes hand in hand with some of the other ones here. Nothing on the field is to be personal. Adults and children; makes no difference. We are now coach/manager/umpire.

oh and who ever asked about my ej to game ratio, it is 3 EJS to appox. 40 games. with two being in the same game.

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

oh and who ever asked about my ej to game ratio, it is 3 EJS to appox. 40 games. with two being in the same game.

Okay, now think about this and honestly answer.

You worked a season of approx. 40 games, and have had to remove a participant in 2 of those games. I'm assuming (correct me if I'm wrong) that you worked 40 LL games.

Compare yourself to some of the more expierienced umpires here. I can't speak for all of them, but I can speak for myself. The last two seasons I've worked about 200-225 games. In those 200-225 games I've had 2 ejections. One was a manager who just would not stop arguing a close play at second base (summer college league), and the other was a HS coach who told me that he was sure I was trying to miss calls because I didn't want his team to win.

This is not to say that I haven't had arguements. I have. But the difference is knowing how to defuse a situation. It is difficult to learn, but you must be committed to attaining this skill. One way is to do your best to keep them in the game. I'm not telling you to stop ejecting when it's warrented, I'm telling you to carefully consider how you can be better at being a calming presence in an argument.

What do you think, can you make goals and work at attaining them?

[wmblue]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

1. When I walk on the field, I feel I need to call a game properly and ensure everyones safety, and to get along with the coaches and managers.

Why do you feel the need to get along with everyone? You can be cordial without being their friend, I think you're still in the "the coaches want to be my friend stage", move away from it as fast as you can.

2. No, I do not feel powerful or "in charge". I'm there to umpire, coaches and mangers are here to coach and manage, and players are here to play. I only use my "Powers" when duty calls.
I've read a lot of your responses, are you sure of this?

5. When I know i kicked a call, I do feel bad about it, but I continue on and do the best i can as an umpire. If someone wishes to chew me out about it, fine. I'll listen to it, and do my best.

Why feel bad about it? Who cares if you've kicked a call. After you make a call, do you think about it for a long time? Do you have a tendency to do a make-up call, or even an FYC?

The time to care if you missed a call is in your post game review and in your journal, if you don't already do it, you should keep a journal which has your feelings about the game, what you did wrong, what you did right, and which rules you need to focus more on. I find to this day I'm still researching rules, writing them out and putting examples in my journal, and I've been umpiring almost as long as you've been alive.



oh and who ever asked about my ej to game ratio, it is 3 EJS to appox. 40 games. with two being in the same game.

Don't you think that's pretty high? That's one every 7.5 games. What were the reason for the ejections?

[wmblue]

Originally Posted by ctblu40

Okay, now think about this and honestly answer.
Compare yourself to some of the more expierienced umpires here. I can't speak for all of them, but I can speak for myself. The last two seasons I've worked about 200-225 games. In those 200-225 games I've had 2 ejections. One was a manager who just would not stop arguing a close play at second base (summer college league), and the other was a HS coach who told me that he was sure I was trying to miss calls because I didn't want his team to win.

I was doing to say something similar. It's been 3 years or about 250 games since I've ejected anyone, that was in a Babe Ruth game where the coach decided that he was going to follow me out on two consecutive calls and tell his runner to stay on the base because I was wrong, before that I went 200 games between ejections.

You learn to deal with confrontation and you learn how to deal with situations, it sounds like in Dan's case his association probably needs to schedule him with veteran umpires or mentors.

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by wmblue

You learn to deal with confrontation and you learn how to deal with situations, it sounds like in Dan's case his association probably needs to schedule him with veteran umpires or mentors.

I don't want to speak for Dan, but....

I think one of the problems may be lack of quality mentor availability in his area. I was lucky enough to have two very good NCAA umpires take me under their wing when I started. They were honest with me about everything.

If they thought I sucked, they told me, "You sucked." If I did a good job, "You did good, kid. But keep working on ______, ______, and ______." They weren't big on telling me war stories, and when they did they remembered to let me know that until I've earned some respect, I couldn't and shouldn't talk to managers the way they did.

Just some things I've tried to present to new umpires.

[Justme]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

oh and who ever asked about my ej to game ratio, it is 3 EJS to appox. 40 games. with two being in the same game.

3 EJS to appox. 40 games? Really Dan that's a pretty high ejection percentage rate. That's how many ejections I've had in the past 2 season and I work 130+ baseball games between Feb & Dec in leagues from youth to adult. You could also add in maybe 50 fast pitch softball games (no additional ejections). I will admit that my ejection rate increases when doing men's slowpitch softball....the beer leagues can be rough

Maybe if you were a better umpire you wouldn't upset so many coaches...think about it....attend some clinics and learn. I remember way back, about a life time ago for you, when I went to my first umpire school.....I didn't realize how much I $ucked as an umpire until I was taught by some guys that knew what they were doing. And after all these years I still attend at least one umpire clinic away and all of the local ones I can find and umpiring is only my hobby.

[GarthB]

As with most things, it's not necessarily the quantity of ejections, but rather the quality.

I've had years in which I had one ejection in more than 150 games. I've also had years in which I've had five ejectons in one half-inning.

As long as one is appropriately taking care of business, ejections are not an issue. It is when one is inappropriately, or needlessly taking care of business, or when one ignores taking care of business that really needs taking care of that ejections, or lack thereof, ejections become issues.

[DG]

There is a difference between a coach who knows where the line is and one who doesn't. The first is more likely to walk up to the line and not cross it, the second has not a clue so he doesn't even know when he crossed the line so toss him quick and get on with the game. If a coach who knows where the line is (and an experienced umpire will know who this is) crosses it's because he is either 1) doing it on purpose or 2) out of control.

My last ejection was a college pitcher, who after a call I made on the bases screamed at me "you are f*ck*ng kidding". Heck, I could have blown the call, although I don't think so, but he clearly did not know the line. When the manager came out to ask what happened I told him and he asked me how much time he had to warmup the next pitcher. I said "as much as he needs". The manager knew the line. He didn't say a word about the call.

Most sub-varsity coaches don't know where the line is.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by DG

There is a difference between a coach who knows where the line is and one who doesn't. The first is more likely to walk up to the line and not cross it, the second has not a clue so he doesn't even know when he crossed the line so toss him quick and get on with the game. If a coach who knows where the line is (and an experienced umpire will know who this is) crosses it's because he is either 1) doing it on purpose or 2) out of control.

I haven't tossed a head coach in years. For the most part they know what they can and can't get away with. Assistant coaches, on the other hand, at least locally, come and go and often either don't know the limits or haven't been around long enough to know me.

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by Tim C

I would state, with all due respect to all of you, that there is no "magic" percentage to evaluate ejections.

The NFHS really wants restriction (a "technical foul") before ejection. I work with college umpires that call BS on that . . . you either do or you don't.

I am talking here of ejections not DAN . . . different umpires have different requirements -- I have often talked of "elephant hunters" (umpires sent to "difficult games" by assignors to regain control of teams) and that can affect any % of ejections.

As with Garth, documented several times, I have ejected SEVEN players and coaches on one pitch . . . I was not "wrong" . . .

During my first 3,112 games I ejected 312 people. Math is pretty simple -- one ejection every ten games. Our "wannabe" MLB umpire on the boards said: "that's too many" . . . I would contend it might have been too few . . .

Different things affect different situations . . . I have had two ejections in the last five years . . . am I that much more mellow? Or is it that High School progams now get fined for ejections . . . or . . . am I better at "verbal judo" . . . or am I just so good I "never" miss a call.

See there are lots of reason why statistics don't tell the story.

Hey, Dan still suckls! He is a child that may never mature . . . but umpire ejections statistics are not how he should be evaluated.

Regards,

Wow! One of your best posts in a while IMO T!

[DG]

I have been warned ahead of time, about trouble teams, and these games usually work out fine. Maybe they know me. When I'm not warned is when sh*t happens. Maybe they don't know me, or it's just me, I don't like when unexpected sh*t happens. But I am pretty sure I'm not an elephant hunter.

[bossman72]

Tee- good point about the "elephant hunters."

To pile on that one, it's also dependent on what league you work. If you work a ton of over 30 games, sometimes you chuck those has-been cry babies left and right because they just b*tch and moan about how YOU cost them on that call since they could beat out that grounder in college. hah!!

[ozzy6900]

Yup, I've been sent to games as an "elephant hunter" also. And same as DG, nothing ever happens (which is fine by me). I have a reputation of being a decent person but not taking any $hit. I simply let the game proceed to it's own finality. If I have to make a minor "adjustment" to get things back on course, no problem.

Newcomers, please be advised that Tim C., myself and many others that seem to have "trouble free" games are not officiating youngsters. We rarely drop below High School level and that makes a big difference in how the games proceed. I don't think that I would put up with the shenanigans of some of these youth coaches anymore.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

my ej to game ratio, it is 3 EJS to appox. 40 games. with two being in the same game.

I think mine is approximately 1 per year, working around 80-100 games a year. So while your ratio is a bit higher than that, with the small sample size, it's possibly not completely out of whack.

However ... the bigger problem to me with your statement is that you seem to think this is a low amount. It's not. It's average at best, possibly high.

And rest assured, I think I'd be giving counsel to someone who went 0 ejections in 2 years - it's almost a given that that umpire lets too much go. So the middle ground is where you want to be.

The reason I bagged on you earlier, however, is that despite THIS post, your previous posts (both the one that started this thread and the one about the letter you sent to your UIC, and others) give the general impression that you are on a power trip. Reference questions others have asked you - they have the same impression I do. You think that maybe since MOST of us seem to think you've got the wrong motivation for your efforts, that possibly we are right, and you need to chill a bit?

[canadaump6]

Try no ejections in 5 years of umpiring, equalling about 270 games in total.