Arguing balls and strikes

[Snorg]

I've tried to search past posts for this, to no avail, so I'll just ask. I apologize if you have recently discussed this.
I know that arguing balls and strikes is a big no-no, and any manager that persists at all, or comes on the field to argue b/s has pretty much bought his own one-way ticket. But what about when the manager goes to the mound to talk to (or change) his pitcher. It seems that there is a convention (at least at higher levels) that when the PU comes out to break up the conference, the manager can usually get in a few comments that he might not otherwise.
I was just curious how some of you handle the mound conference in regard to balls/strikes. Do you let the manager say something there that he could not say elsewhere? Or is arguing b/s the same here, there, and everywhere?
Thanks for any and all responses.

[mbyron]

For HS varsity (or JV), I would not let the coach make comments while he's changing pitchers. For one thing, arguing balls and strikes is prohibited by rule throughout the contest. For another, it sets a bad example in front of the two players most likely to whinge about it, namely F1 and F2.

If the coach starts to make any kind of comment about the calls I'm making, I interrupt and ask: "coach, are you arguing balls and strikes?" I think that sends the message without being too confrontational. I will add, however, that in the HS games I worked in 2006, I did not have to use this strategy at all.

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by Snorg

I've tried to search past posts for this, to no avail, so I'll just ask. I apologize if you have recently discussed this.
I know that arguing balls and strikes is a big no-no, and any manager that persists at all, or comes on the field to argue b/s has pretty much bought his own one-way ticket. But what about when the manager goes to the mound to talk to (or change) his pitcher. It seems that there is a convention (at least at higher levels) that when the PU comes out to break up the conference, the manager can usually get in a few comments that he might not otherwise.
I was just curious how some of you handle the mound conference in regard to balls/strikes. Do you let the manager say something there that he could not say elsewhere? Or is arguing b/s the same here, there, and everywhere?
Thanks for any and all responses.

Only the more experienced Coaches are going to take this approach. This has happened to me a few times over the years. In this situation I'll cut him some slack. Obviously he's not trying to show me up. I'll listen to what he has to say (that really all he wants) and then we play on.

[blueskysblue]

I find it amazing that the vast majority of "interactions" that I have had over the years with managers / coaches involve judgement calls, not rule interpretations, or combinations of judgement & rule interpretations, i.e., balk calls. Many of the rules "discussions" come about because of change(s) in the rule(s), or the manager / coach's firm belief in one of the "myths". In fact, many of the managers / coaches I see haven't read the current rule book and / or don't even have the current edition. There are exceptions, of course, and some of the very best have learned how to use the rules to their advantage. I have found the above to be true from Little League all the way through Junior College levels, baseball and softball! Although I only do those two sports, I believe it to be accurate across most it not all sports.

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by blueskysblue

I find it amazing that the vast majority of "interactions" that I have had over the years with managers / coaches involve judgement calls, not rule interpretations, or combinations of judgement & rule interpretations, i.e., balk calls. Many of the rules "discussions" come about because of change(s) in the rule(s), or the manager / coach's firm belief in one of the "myths". In fact, many of the managers / coaches I see haven't read the current rule book and / or don't even have the current edition. There are exceptions, of course, and some of the very best have learned how to use the rules to their advantage. I have found the above to be true from Little League all the way through Junior College levels, baseball and softball! Although I only do those two sports, I believe it to be accurate across most it not all sports.

And your point is?

[3appleshigh]

I have in fact often seen that the coach may want to make comments, and not gone to break up the meeting, it doesn't last all that much longer maybe 10-20 sec. And you can see how frustrated he is when he walks away. Nope just kidding, actually that happened early in my ump life, when I didn't really know I was to break up the meeting, and the coach was so mad, then found it so funny that he came to me after the game saying he was standing there waiting and the players finally asked him if we could get back to the game. When I told him I didn't even think to break up the meeting he nearly fell over, I never had a stich of trouble from him as a coach ever, and He has gone out of his way to help me improve tremendously. Funny how things happen.

If I get caught in this senario now, it would go similar to above posts, a little more tolerance, but not much before a warning.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by Snorg

I've tried to search past posts for this, to no avail, so I'll just ask. I apologize if you have recently discussed this.
I know that arguing balls and strikes is a big no-no, and any manager that persists at all, or comes on the field to argue b/s has pretty much bought his own one-way ticket. But what about when the manager goes to the mound to talk to (or change) his pitcher. It seems that there is a convention (at least at higher levels) that when the PU comes out to break up the conference, the manager can usually get in a few comments that he might not otherwise.
I was just curious how some of you handle the mound conference in regard to balls/strikes. Do you let the manager say something there that he could not say elsewhere? Or is arguing b/s the same here, there, and everywhere?
Thanks for any and all responses.

you want to see what happens when johnny damon argues balls and strikes??:

http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/script...&urlstr=&murl=


hehehe. i always enjoy watching this video.

[mattmets]

Originally Posted by bossman72

you want to see what happens when johnny damon argues balls and strikes??:

http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/script...&urlstr=&murl=


hehehe. i always enjoy watching this video.

Bossman, are you trying to get in my business? ARE YOU TRYING TO GET INTO MY BUSINESS?

Didn't think so :P

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by mbyron

For HS varsity (or JV), I would not let the coach make comments while he's changing pitchers. For one thing, arguing balls and strikes is prohibited by rule throughout the contest.

Actually Federation rules do not prohibit it. Is there anyone who actually allows arguing in Federation games that they would not allow in games played under other rule codes?

[Justme]

Originally Posted by LDUB

Actually Federation rules do not prohibit it.

LDUB;

Are you saying that you can argue judgment calls under FED rules?

[TussAgee11]

I go up to break up the confrence.

Coach starts in on me, but its not obvious to anyone.

I'll ignore and break up the conference, and start to walk back to the plate. If he chases me there, and its about balls and strikes, seeya.

[Tim C]

I have not gone to the mound to break up a conference in 10 years or more.

Regards,

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Tim C

I have not gone to the mound to break up a conference in 10 years or more.

And this signifies......? No manager has intentionally stalled on the mound in the last ten years, or that you just don't care how long the manager delays the game?

[Tim C]

Fair question:

I am the member of a listserve of umpires. When I posted this same thing they were amazed.

In my area it has been made clear that the "mound conference" is part of the teaching of the game. We allow that to happen.

SDS, I would ask, how long should you wait? 20 seconds, 30 . . . you get my drift I am sure.

So to make you happy with your question . . . I don't care . . .

Now let me explain, if you'll allow that, why it is this way in my area:

Under the last two Oregon State University Head Coaches D-1 college umpires were told: "if you come out here and break up my conference you'll NEVER work here again."

Pretty simple.

Those umpires brought back to our group the philosophy that we should work with coaches and the conference. It is pretty simple.

Steve, I don't expect you to agree . . . but I see no reason to go out and break up the conversation . . . 90% of the time the guy really is "teaching" and the other 10% I am not going to fall for.

You always try to force us to accept the "San Diego Way" and some of us have our own ways.

BTW, I would not allow any coach to use the mound conference for a vehicle to argue balls and strikes . . . I would "Bill Miller" him immediately.

In the last 10 years I have not gone to the mound during a conference and it has worked fine for me.

Regards,

[Justme]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Now let me explain, if you'll allow that, why it is this way in my area:

Under the last two Oregon State University Head Coaches D-1 college umpires were told: "if you come out here and break up my conference you'll NEVER work here again."

And if they don't like your strike zone, or a close call that goes against them or ?????

Maybe the umpires should refuse to work OSU games..... If I were working D-1 ball in your area they could ki$$ my..........backside