Arguing balls and strikes

[Tim C]

And, sadly, you would not be missed.

There are many, many umpres that would step over your dead body to work the games of the NCAA National Champion.

Things are what they are my friend . . . much like when I umpire I am just reporting what I see.

Regards,

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by bossman72

you want to see what happens when johnny damon argues balls and strikes??:

http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/script...&urlstr=&murl=


hehehe. i always enjoy watching this video.

I love this video!

And I have already used this once already on a base coach - "Do you want to argure balls & strikes? GOOD!"

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Fair question:

I am the member of a listserve of umpires. When I posted this same thing they were amazed.

In my area it has been made clear that the "mound conference" is part of the teaching of the game. We allow that to happen.

SDS, I would ask, how long should you wait? 20 seconds, 30 . . . you get my drift I am sure.

So to make you happy with your question . . . I don't care . . .

Now let me explain, if you'll allow that, why it is this way in my area:

Under the last two Oregon State University Head Coaches D-1 college umpires were told: "if you come out here and break up my conference you'll NEVER work here again."

Pretty simple.

Those umpires brought back to our group the philosophy that we should work with coaches and the conference. It is pretty simple.

Steve, I don't expect you to agree . . . but I see no reason to go out and break up the conversation . . . 90% of the time the guy really is "teaching" and the other 10% I am not going to fall for.

You always try to force us to accept the "San Diego Way" and some of us have our own ways.

BTW, I would not allow any coach to use the mound conference for a vehicle to argue balls and strikes . . . I would "Bill Miller" him immediately.

In the last 10 years I have not gone to the mound during a conference and it has worked fine for me.

And Tuss, you are just a waste of jizz and I see no reason to waste bandwidth on you.

Regards,

Hmmmmm.....

I was trying to force you to accept the San Diego way????

WTF is the "San Diego Way?"

No, no, no.....I wouldn't force my way of doing things on anybody.

I was thinking along the lines of, ummmm, let's see......the professional way. In nearly every MLB game I've ever witnessed, the PU has to come out to break up the mound visit, especially when the manager is just stalling so his reliever can get loose.

See, I give them plenty (in my estimation) of time to chat, then I purposefully dust the plate thoroughly, then if they are still gabbing on and on after all this time has elapsed, I stride (purposefully, again) to the mound area and then, usually one of the conversants will tip off the coach to my approach and the conversation usually comes to a halt. If not, I say "let's go to work," and they go to work.

I'm really sorry that you must kiss Oregon State's booty in order to work their games. I say F**k That. Guess that's why I never made it to D-1. My nose is white, not brown.

[Tim C]

Do you think I don't understand the MLB way . . . come on. I worked a lot of years and broke up a lot of conferences.

I am trying to tell you the way it is in my area.

That's all . . .

SO when skippy goes out . . . I s l o w l y take out my line up card . . . I write down anything I can . . . I s l o w l y fill my ball supply . . . and I s l o w l y clean the dish . . . I then walk up either the first base or third base line . . . as soon as I hear a fan chirp "gees, blue how long do they get" I then make sure I go and talk with the on deck hitter about something really important . . . a conference has never lasted this long.

Steve, we may never agee as to how umpiring should be done . . . but htat OK cuz it is just style and nuttin' else.

Regards,

[David B]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Do you think I don't understand the MLB way . . . come on. I worked a lot of years and broke up a lot of conferences.

I am trying to tell you the way it is in my area.

That's all . . .

SO when skippy goes out . . . I s l o w l y take out my line up card . . . I write down anything I can . . . I s l o w l y fill my ball supply . . . and I s l o w l y clean the dish . . . I then walk up either the first base or third base line . . . as soon as I hear a fan chirp "gees, blue how long do they get" I then make sure I go and talk with the on deck hitter about something really important . . . a conference has never lasted this long.

Steve, we may never agee as to how umpiring should be done . . . but htat OK cuz it is just style and nuttin' else.

Regards,

Makes a good point. Having thought about it, I can't remember the last time I had to break up a conference.

If a coach does want to complain he would have to come to me or visit me at the on-deck circle etc.,

Maybe its just good coaches, but usually after 30 or so seconds they will always break it up on their own.

If they want to take longer, who cares ... if it will help F1 throw strikes, who am I to complain ???

Thanks
David

[Chris_Hickman]

I guess that I have heard it all. Our job on the "stick" is to keep the game flowing. The coach can get his point across to his pitcher within 15-20 seconds once he hits the dirt of the mound. What are you going to do Tim, let the skipper pull up a lawn chair and pow-pow with the guys for an hour?
I have never heard of coaches "red-lining" guys for " breaking up their little meetin'. Give me a break. Some of the stuff I hear on this board is a bunch of crap sometimes. Guys...listen..and trust me......WE BREAK UP TRIPS TO THE MOUND IF THE COACH IS OUT THERE TOO LONG!! And being out there too long is 15-20 Mississippi's......... Chris

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by Justme

Are you saying that you can argue judgment calls under FED rules?

Yes, the book says the coach is allowed to come to the plate to discuss pitches.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by PWL

And that is where your problem lies. You are not a professional umpire. Get that through your head. Professional teams have relievers that are specialists. Wouldn't you agree that most high school teams are lucky to have three front line pitchers? Their relief pitchers are 99 out of 100 times already on the field as a position player. The coach isn't stalling so he can bring in his ace reliever. The rule for trips to the mound in high school are different than at the professional level. So let the coach do his business. He should know when he has been out there long enough. If the baseball in San Diego is all cracked up as you say it is, then these coaches shouldn't need an umpire's directive that they have been out on the mound too long. Sit back and enjoy a little fresh air. Since you didn't brown nose your way into D-1 umpiring, could you explain how everyone else gets there.

I didn't realize the discussion was about bringing in a new pitcher. I thought we were discussing conferences on the mound while leaving the same pitcher in the game. Perhaps others don't have problems with coaches that will unnecessarily delay the game while giving an extended pep talk to their pitchers during a conference. If Tee doesn't have that problem then he's very fortunate to have coaches who understand that they need to get their business done relatively quickly during a conference. It's been my experience that the coaches in my area don't have that understanding and sense of decorum, so we have to break up conferences quite a bit. Usually all I have to do is start walking toward the mound and they get the message and finish before I have to get all the way out to say something.


Tim.

[Justme]

Originally Posted by LDUB

Yes, the book says the coach is allowed to come to the plate to discuss pitches.

You must have a different book than I have. Where does it say that the coach can come out and argue the PU's strike zone?

[Tim C]

Again, for the final time, I have not gone to the mound to break up a conference in 10 years.

Chris said:

"I have never heard of coaches "red-lining" guys for " breaking up their little meetin'. Give me a break. Some of the stuff I hear on this board is a bunch of crap sometimes."

Chris, it appears you are calling me a liar -- is that correct?

There is no place, that I know of, where the NFHS Rule Book says a coach can argue balls/strikes. Luke, please direct me to the passage so I can work making my local group more sensitive to rats needs.

[TussAgee11]

Proper length isn't a set time, T. You challenge me in PM and say I'm on the clock for getting back to you, call me a name because you don't know what to do when challenged but degrade, and then turn off your PM so I can't answer you.

Dont' want to waste bandwith on me? Then don't PM me

As for the subject at hand (sorry to ya'll, if somebody PMs me and gets on me and I can't respond via PM, and I'm challenged profanely, I need to respond here)
At around 30 seconds I'm at the mound causally and the manager says, "Ok Johnny, here we go! strikes. Thanks Blue." We go our seperate ways and get back to playing ball.

[Chris_Hickman]

Liar is such a strong word. I cannot answer why D-1 guys in ur area wont go to the mound. Do you currently work D-1 ball Tim? If you dont, them dont worry about the D-1 coaches. Since you are the only person that I have ever heard of who dont go to the mound, it makes me wonder a little. Chris

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by Justme

You must have a different book than I have. Where does it say that the coach can come out and argue the PU's strike zone?

There is no equivalent of the comment of 9.02a from the OBR in the Federation rule book. There is no rule which says participants who argue balls and strikes shall be ejected.

I though it was in the case book, but it is a question from an old exam. "A player or coach who questions a ball or strike shall be ejected." The correct answer is false.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by LDUB

There is no equivalent of the comment of 9.02a from the OBR in the Federation rule book. There is no rule which says participants who argue balls and strikes shall be ejected.

How about 10-1-4: "Any umpire's decision which involves judgment, such as whether a hit is fair or foul, whether a pitch is a strike or a ball, or whether a runner is safe or out, is final" (my emphasis).

True, the rule does not explicitly say that arguing balls and strikes leads to an ejection. FED generally prefers a less confrontational approach and discourages ejections. But if my decision is final, then I'll warn a coach who argues balls and strikes and, if necessary, eject him for failing to observe the warning.

What else would "final" mean in this context, Luke?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by LDUB

I thought it was in the case book, but it is a question from an old exam. "A player or coach who questions a ball or strike shall be ejected." The correct answer is false.

But a player or coach who persists in arguing balls and strikes after being warned to stop arguing is liable to be ejected, no matter by what set of rules the game is being played.