Ball Four

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Why is this such an issue with you? We all have our little quirks in the way we officiate. Somethings may work for you and others may work for me, as long as we get the call right and manage the game properly there shouldn't be a problem.

I shouldn't let myself get baited ... but here goes.

Here's why this is an issue.

Someone posts a question. 6 people known for jumping on here giving umpires crappy or just flat wrong advice (and one who is respected) lept quickly to one opinion. 3 people (ignoring myself here) who are not only well respected, but among the few who come to this board and are almost always spot on with regard to every situation imaginable, all stating the opposite (correct) opinion.

Yet because the trolls are louder than the good umpires, and most of the good umpires have put these trolls on ignore long long ago - so they don't realize that several people are giving horrid advice on this issue, someone (this would be you) who has been doing something right for 15 years now decides to do it wrong.

And that pisses me off. Sorry - it does.

As to the actual issue here - again, if you don't believe me (or Tee, or Oz, or Garth), find someone who you will believe who actually works at a high level somewhere, and ask them. Or watch any of the highest levels of baseball and see what they do. Go sit row one some day and specifically listen to the PU.

Counting out the pitches (whether Strikes 1/2 or strike 3; whether balls 1-3 or ball 4) is BUSH. You want to step down to LLD's level - go right ahead. And we have one more quality umpire using bush mechanics.

[3appleshigh]

I Don't think I deserve to be catagorized with the trolls, mcrowder.

And on this particular subject, I'm unable to have an opinion because of the group I umpire for sets out the standards. I specifically mentioned that as an addition to the thread. I state that I didn't call #'s in the past till I was told to. I don't think calling them number or not matters a smidge to the game and how we officiate it, If given the chance to choose, I vote don't give #, only adds a new way for you to mess up.

[mbyron]

I dunno, Mike. Evans taught me to call the number on EVERY pitch: ball 1, ball 2, ball 3, ball 4; strike 1, strike 2, strike 3.

That's not what I do: I announce strike 3 routinely (swinging or called - punch out only on called strike). I also announce ball 4.

[D-Man]

This is, by far, the stupidest arguement on the internet, whether it be about baseball, politics, chicks, whatever.

I do not count any pitches, balls or strikes. I give the count after three pitches, and at 3 & 2. For any other information, you need to ask.

D

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I dunno, Mike. Evans taught me to call the number on EVERY pitch: ball 1, ball 2, ball 3, ball 4; strike 1, strike 2, strike 3.

Me thinks you didn't hear the full explanation in the cages.

It's along the lines of "This is what we want you to do here...you won't do this when you leave."

It is all part of the Academy thing...having every student work exactly the same way so they can be judged against a standard and so individualized mechanics aren't taken in the mix.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Me thinks you didn't hear the full explanation in the cages.

It's along the lines of "This is what we want you to do here...you won't do this when you leave."

It is all part of the Academy thing...having every student work exactly the same way so they can be judged against a standard and so individualized mechanics aren't taken in the mix.

Yes, but some umpires really took their training to heart, and still do it to this very day in professional baseball, and back home in their local associations. There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing it in real life, as well as in school.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Me thinks you didn't hear the full explanation in the cages.

It's along the lines of "This is what we want you to do here...you won't do this when you leave."

It is all part of the Academy thing...having every student work exactly the same way so they can be judged against a standard and so individualized mechanics aren't taken in the mix.

Methinks you didn't read my entire post (why are we talking like this? ).

I addressed a poster who seemed serious about never announcing "ball 4," back when this thread had a serious strand in it.

One reason I don't call pitches with "Academy mechanics" is just as you say.

They also don't allow "the point" for calling strikes, or even "the chainsaw" for called strike 3. I was certainly aware that this uniformity was for the sake of focusing on what's truly important and challenging about calling pitches: tracking the pitch all the way to the glove, making the call, and ONLY THEN signalling or verbalizing it.

But then, I'm a student of the finer points of pedagogy, and Evans is, as you know, an excellent teacher as well as trainer.

[JugglingReferee]

I think b!tc*ing about those who say or don't say Ball 4 is like looking for mucous hanging off someone's nose.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

As to the actual issue here - again, if you don't believe me (or Tee, or Oz, or Garth), find someone who you will believe who actually works at a high level somewhere, and ask them. Or watch any of the highest levels of baseball and see what they do. Go sit row one some day and specifically listen to the PU.

I say "Ball Four" (but not 1 or 2 or 3). Why? Because that's how I was taught (by D-1 officials at one of my first camps) and it's a habit.

I think the whole thread is much ado about nothing.

[Dave Hensley]

The thread is much more than much ado about nothing - it's close to hilarious.

I say "Ball 4" about 60% of the time. Other responses are "Ball," "Nope," "4."

I say "strike 3" or "THREE!" on calles strike 3, just prior to performing my world-class punchout mechanic.

This is completely a matter of personal preference. Doing it one way or the other does NOT paint one as a rookie or a veteran, a "trusted source" or a troll, hiliarious claims in this thread notwithstanding.

[jicecone]

When I gave up using my indicator, I no longer ANNOUNCED the game for da boys because I could no longer stare at the dam thing to see what came after 1, 2, or 3.

By the same token, I could probably count on one hand, (thats 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, so you don't have to look), the number of times a player (that shaves) had to be told, "its ball 4, take your base."

Save it for the instructional leagues !!!!

[TussAgee11]

Potato potAHto. That's all this thread is.

Personally, I never say ball 4 or strike 3 (unless the 3 is a looking, or its in the dirt, I say Strike 3 for no catch purposes, but let's not start that thread here).

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by PWL

All he said was that he would verbalize ball four. I think he would have more trouble sorting out the sheep from the trolls. I've heard and seen D-1 umpires say strike three when they do their mechanic. They simply run the two words together very fast. STRITRHEEEE!!!!! It didn't make them seem any less of an umpire to me. I've worked with the best in my association and some will verbalize ball and then in a softer voice ball four so the only people that hear it are the batter and catcher. I suppose it is a habit they have come by over the years. From what I've seen they're rock solid on the field. So better to be pissed off than pissed on.

Goodwillref - that should be enough to convince you right there.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Goodwillref - that should be enough to convince you right there.

I am more conviced now than ever that I will verbalize ball four. Some people in the post read a litte/lot into situations. How does the verbalizing ball four make me a bottom of the food chain umpire...it doesn't!

[LMan]

It's better if you point at the pitcher and yell, "YOU LOST HIM!" before motioning the batter to 1B.