Ball Four

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

I have been umpiring for 15 years and never said "ball four", but after reading these posts I will change this upcoming season and say "ball four." It just make sense to avoid any confusion on the play. I still will not point towards first like I see some umps do.

You've been a good umpire for 15 years. Don't pick up bad habits just because the LL trolls here tell you to. The only actual umpire who has told you do say "Ball four" here is Rich - the rest ... not so much. (And as I mentioned, it shocked me the Rich said he does this). Note the guys who have said not to do this - surely they carry a BIT more weight than the guys (other than Rich) saying to say Ball Four, don't ya think?

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

You've been a good umpire for 15 years. Don't pick up bad habits just because the LL trolls here tell you to. The only actual umpire who has told you do say "Ball four" here is Rich - the rest ... not so much. (And as I mentioned, it shocked me the Rich said he does this). Note the guys who have said not to do this - surely they carry a BIT more weight than the guys (other than Rich) saying to say Ball Four, don't ya think?

I think it is a good tool to use. We have to remember sometimes the batter may forget the count and I don't see using this as a problem. If you want to use it go ahead, if you don't, don't!!!

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

I think it is a good tool to use. We have to remember sometimes the batter may forget the count and I don't see using this as a problem. If you want to use it go ahead, if you don't, don't!!!

Boys, we've lost another one to the dark side. Now you see why it's a bad thing to put LLD and the like on ignore?

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Boys, we've lost another one to the dark side. Now you see why it's a bad thing to put LLD and the like on ignore?

Why is this such an issue with you? We all have our little quirks in the way we officiate. Somethings may work for you and others may work for me, as long as we get the call right and manage the game properly there shouldn't be a problem.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Why is this such an issue with you? We all have our little quirks in the way we officiate. Somethings may work for you and others may work for me, as long as we get the call right and manage the game properly there shouldn't be a problem.

I shouldn't let myself get baited ... but here goes.

Here's why this is an issue.

Someone posts a question. 6 people known for jumping on here giving umpires crappy or just flat wrong advice (and one who is respected) lept quickly to one opinion. 3 people (ignoring myself here) who are not only well respected, but among the few who come to this board and are almost always spot on with regard to every situation imaginable, all stating the opposite (correct) opinion.

Yet because the trolls are louder than the good umpires, and most of the good umpires have put these trolls on ignore long long ago - so they don't realize that several people are giving horrid advice on this issue, someone (this would be you) who has been doing something right for 15 years now decides to do it wrong.

And that pisses me off. Sorry - it does.

As to the actual issue here - again, if you don't believe me (or Tee, or Oz, or Garth), find someone who you will believe who actually works at a high level somewhere, and ask them. Or watch any of the highest levels of baseball and see what they do. Go sit row one some day and specifically listen to the PU.

Counting out the pitches (whether Strikes 1/2 or strike 3; whether balls 1-3 or ball 4) is BUSH. You want to step down to LLD's level - go right ahead. And we have one more quality umpire using bush mechanics.

[3appleshigh]

I Don't think I deserve to be catagorized with the trolls, mcrowder.

And on this particular subject, I'm unable to have an opinion because of the group I umpire for sets out the standards. I specifically mentioned that as an addition to the thread. I state that I didn't call #'s in the past till I was told to. I don't think calling them number or not matters a smidge to the game and how we officiate it, If given the chance to choose, I vote don't give #, only adds a new way for you to mess up.

[mbyron]

I dunno, Mike. Evans taught me to call the number on EVERY pitch: ball 1, ball 2, ball 3, ball 4; strike 1, strike 2, strike 3.

That's not what I do: I announce strike 3 routinely (swinging or called - punch out only on called strike). I also announce ball 4.

[JugglingReferee]

I think b!tc*ing about those who say or don't say Ball 4 is like looking for mucous hanging off someone's nose.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

As to the actual issue here - again, if you don't believe me (or Tee, or Oz, or Garth), find someone who you will believe who actually works at a high level somewhere, and ask them. Or watch any of the highest levels of baseball and see what they do. Go sit row one some day and specifically listen to the PU.

I say "Ball Four" (but not 1 or 2 or 3). Why? Because that's how I was taught (by D-1 officials at one of my first camps) and it's a habit.

I think the whole thread is much ado about nothing.

[Dave Hensley]

The thread is much more than much ado about nothing - it's close to hilarious.

I say "Ball 4" about 60% of the time. Other responses are "Ball," "Nope," "4."

I say "strike 3" or "THREE!" on calles strike 3, just prior to performing my world-class punchout mechanic.

This is completely a matter of personal preference. Doing it one way or the other does NOT paint one as a rookie or a veteran, a "trusted source" or a troll, hiliarious claims in this thread notwithstanding.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by PWL

All he said was that he would verbalize ball four. I think he would have more trouble sorting out the sheep from the trolls. I've heard and seen D-1 umpires say strike three when they do their mechanic. They simply run the two words together very fast. STRITRHEEEE!!!!! It didn't make them seem any less of an umpire to me. I've worked with the best in my association and some will verbalize ball and then in a softer voice ball four so the only people that hear it are the batter and catcher. I suppose it is a habit they have come by over the years. From what I've seen they're rock solid on the field. So better to be pissed off than pissed on.

Goodwillref - that should be enough to convince you right there.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Goodwillref - that should be enough to convince you right there.

I am more conviced now than ever that I will verbalize ball four. Some people in the post read a litte/lot into situations. How does the verbalizing ball four make me a bottom of the food chain umpire...it doesn't!

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

You've been a good umpire for 15 years. Don't pick up bad habits just because the LL trolls here tell you to. The only actual umpire who has told you do say "Ball four" here is Rich - the rest ... not so much. (And as I mentioned, it shocked me the Rich said he does this). Note the guys who have said not to do this - surely they carry a BIT more weight than the guys (other than Rich) saying to say Ball Four, don't ya think?

What bit you, Mike? Someone doesn't agree with you and they're now a LL troll? Why don't you explain to me why you feel it's a bad habit to verbalize ball four. If there's a good reason not to, I'm all ears.


Tim.

[LLPA13UmpDan]

i second about that statement. Why is it "wrong" to say "ball 4"? We all say "strike 3" dont we? If you really think about it, it sounds kinda dumb not to say a number after s3 and b4.

[SanDiegoSteve]

I watch a lot of MLB baseball. I mean a lot. I have heard many MLB umpires say "Ball 4." I have also heard quite a few MLB umpires announce the number after every "Ball" call, 1 through 4. I have heard them not announce any number, too. Same exact thing with strikes. Some say their strike call followed by "3," and others do not.

Every umpire does it differently. To say that it is wrong to say "Ball 4" is just stupid, as there is nothing wrong with doing it either way one chooses.