throat guard discussion

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by GarthB

I've seen partners, in a heel/toe stance, take a foul that went off the bat, to the ground and then up under their mask and to the throat, on more than one occasion.

Let's check out the stance of this D-1 umpire. It is clear that there is room for a baseball to get under his mask and either into his throat or chin.

Garth, this guy is so out of whack that even the best throat guard won't help him! This is almost what I looked like when I did LL eons ago. Yeah, I took a foul ball to the throat way back then but that is when I corrected my stance.

When I settle in the GDS, my back is pretty straight (thanks to missing parts). My mask is very close to the bump-out on my WVP so there is no room for a ball to get in there.

I also never used a throat guard when I used the scissors. I just didn't like them - period. Now, when my son started umpiring, I made him wear a throat guard.

I am in the same school as many others, if you want to wear a throat guard - wear one! You are just not going to convince me to wear something that I do not like.

[LLPA13UmpDan]

I honestly dont like them, but ive learned to live with it. 99% of umpires in our org. where one, as taught by our instructor.

[SAump]

Consider the requirements for NHL goalies. Do goalies in the NHL and below wear a clear throat guard attached to their HSM? Yes, because they recognize that the helmet alone does not properly protect their throat.

The first question I would ask after sustaining an injury, "Was I properly equipped?" Well, if you feel reasonably secure and ignorantly believe that you no longer need a throat guard, get rid of it and good luck.

Best wishes,

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Garth, this guy is so out of whack that even the best throat guard won't help him! This is almost what I looked like when I did LL eons ago. Yeah, I took a foul ball to the throat way back then but that is when I corrected my stance.

When I settle in the GDS, my back is pretty straight (thanks to missing parts). My mask is very close to the bump-out on my WVP so there is no room for a ball to get in there.

I also never used a throat guard when I used the scissors. I just didn't like them - period. Now, when my son started umpiring, I made him wear a throat guard.

I am in the same school as many others, if you want to wear a throat guard - wear one! You are just not going to convince me to wear something that I do not like.

This is a Division I college umpire. Apparently his stance works for him. Who are you to criticize it?

[nickrego]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Let's step back and take a breath . . .

Nick has been consistent in both his support of the HSM and the dangler.

I have worked very hard to not get my panties in a twitter when Nick takes a weird turn in his positioning.

When someone (not Nick BTW) says "my throat guard gets hit SEVERAL times a season" . . . I just call "bull" . . . Even before I worked the GDSS I seldom, if ever, got hit in the throat guard. I can't be that much different than others.

While I think it is ridiculous that people would where a dangler with an HSM it is not any of my business it they do.

Again, I am guessing here:

For an umpire to get hit in the throat(guard) the ball would have to bounce off the ground FIRST then come up under the mask . . .

If this is true then by working the GDSS, which puts me faaaar back, it is nearly impossible for a ball to get under my WestVest Mask . . .

So my only comment about this thread is:

People should be allowed to wear what they want, in terms of equipment, if it makes them more secure and therefore a better umpire.

He11, I even hear some old guys wear forearm guards.

Regards,

I will say, that since I started using the GD, I get hit in the Throat Guard a lot less.

And I will also say, that until I started using the GD, I was considering wearing Forearm Guards. But in the GD, I get hit a lot less in the Forearms. But I still think they are a legitimate piece of equipment. Our Forearms are at great risk, and a very sensitive place to get hit. I know umpires who quit umpiring after taking a severe hit to the Forearm. And these guys aren't sissy's either.

You know, we are armatures, not professionals. We need to protect ourselves as best we can, so we can continue to support our families by our regular jobs. Getting injured during a $50 baseball game, that keeps us from working is not desirable, in any case.

[ozzy6900]

Garth,

Your photo of your friend was a good example of your point. I am sure that many people that saw it thought as you do. My comments were simply to the photo. You know me by now, I don't care if you are a D3, D1 or MLB. If I see a flaw I am going to tell you about it! Your friend's head is too far in front of his body for even the best throat guard to work and that is a fact. He may be the best umpire in his division, that still won't impress the baseball when it bounces into his exposed throat! Now now remember, I am not critiquing his ability as an umpire, I am just giving an observation from the photo.

The moral of this thread is simple, Garth. If you want to wear a throat guard, by all means wear one! If you want to force your son to wear one, that is fine too. There are those of us that do not wear one and there is nothing that you can do about it - it is just that simple! It's nothing to get upset about!

[LMan]

I think Jason has seen enough evals to be able to take a little criticism by some Internet umpires, warranted or not. JMO.

I know that a dangler is a personal decision (I dont wear one), but I gotta admit, I have never seen a HSM with a dangler. I think I'd collapse laughing if I did.

Now, if I get smacked in the throat next season, I'll be the first one to croak to all of you that I was wrong...

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Garth,


The moral of this thread is simple, Garth. If you want to wear a throat guard, by all means wear one! If you want to force your son to wear one, that is fine too. There are those of us that do not wear one and there is nothing that you can do about it - it is just that simple! It's nothing to get upset about!

1. i don't know about the moral of this thread or if there is one. I simply posted in response to someone saying it wasn't possible to get hit under a mask by a baseball.

2. I never said I wore a throat guard, in fact, I don't.

3. My son knows how to umpire better than most folks at this site and is old enough and experienced enough to make his own decisions. I never attempt to force him to do anything.

3. I'm not upset about anything. I just continue to be amazed by the posts of some people.

4. Have a very pleasant day.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Garth,

I can't believe you could make a statement such as #3 (the first #3, that is). I know you're proud of your kid and all, but you have no idea how good most folks at this site are at umpiring, it is just your speculation in most cases. The statement smacks of pride, but is illogical at best. In fact, it should be categorized under your second #3.

[LLPA13UmpDan]

Garth, talk about selfish and ignorant comment. Ok, if your going to be that way, I know how to umpire better then your son

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Garth,

I can't believe you could make a statement such as #3 (the first #3, that is). I know you're proud of your kid and all, but you have no idea how good most folks at this site are at umpiring, it is just your speculation in most cases. The statement smacks of pride, but is illogical at best. In fact, it should be categorized under your second #3.

Another amazing post.

Unlike some posts on the boards, this had nothing to do with pride, and everything to do with training and experience. Matt is not a 16 year old LL umpire. Matt, at nearly 22, has more professional training and experience at upper level tournaments, including state, regional and district play-offs in FED, Legion and MSBL than most 40 year olds. His accolades from observers include state clinicians, MiLB umpires and MLB umpires and, equally important to me, some umpires in a private list to which I belong, who also post here.

As regards my mention of "most folks" on this board, they present enough evidence about themselves to provide additional judgment.

If you choose to include yourself in my grouping of "most folks", that's up to you.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by nickrego

I will say, that since I started using the GD, I get hit in the Throat Guard a lot less.

And I will also say, that until I started using the GD, I was considering wearing Forearm Guards. But in the GD, I get hit a lot less in the Forearms. But I still think they are a legitimate piece of equipment. Our Forearms are at great risk, and a very sensitive place to get hit. I know umpires who quit umpiring after taking a severe hit to the Forearm. And these guys aren't sissy's either.

You know, we are armatures, not professionals. We need to protect ourselves as best we can, so we can continue to support our families by our regular jobs. Getting injured during a $50 baseball game, that keeps us from working is not desirable, in any case.

I no longer leave my forearm exposed. I place the back of my hand in the small of my back. The most damage I have felt is a glancing blow to the upper arm. No more agonizing pain or loss of motion, no more lost feeling or numbness, no more swelling or bruising and no more worry about the hand or wrist. I worry about getting hit on the elbow bone, but I know that it will not absorb the full blow. I take comfort in knowing I did all I could do to protect myself, despite what others may think about the SA stance.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Garth, this guy is so out of whack that even the best throat guard won't help him! This is almost what I looked like when I did LL eons ago. Yeah, I took a foul ball to the throat way back then but that is when I corrected my stance.

Let's see....D-1 official....2003 and 2004 Community College World Series....professionally trained...

Yeah.....he don't know squat.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Let's see....D-1 official....2003 and 2004 Community College World Series....professionally trained...

Yeah.....he don't know squat.

He may know squat, but it appears he doesn't know how to squat!

I have to go with Ozzy here. This guy looks horrible. Whoever told umpires that touching the catcher was a good thing? Remember, we are only discussing his stance here, not his training or experience.

[etn_ump]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

He may know squat, but it appears he doesn't know how to squat!

I have to go with Ozzy here. This guy looks horrible. Whoever told umpires that touching the catcher was a good thing? Remember, we are only discussing his stance here, not his training or experience.

Well, he must have some training or experience or he wouldn't have risen to the level he has.

Regarding the throat guards, wear or don't wear it, but, show me a stance where the throat is not exposed. Why would anyone choose to not wear something that could keep them from dying on the field?

If the throat guard didn't have a function, like the sunshield so many wear in their masks that do absolutely nothing, it would be different. The throat guard is a functional piece of protective equipment.