Scabs vs. Unions

[PWL]

I'm putting this out there for the people that were so anti-union during the MiLB strike. It has to do with the recent death of Cory Lidle. I not sure many of you know that Lidle was to be a "replacement" player with the Mets before management and the players' union came to an agreement. In what amounted to a nine year major league career for Lidle for which he played for seven teams he amassed a record of 82-72. In this amount of time, he appeared in a total of 277 games, 199 of which were starts. His career high in wins for a seasons was 13 which he did twice. So, almost 1/3 of his wins came in two seasons. For this he made untold millions as a journeyman pitcher. As far as I know, players who were "replacement" players have never, nor will ever, be allowed to join the MLBPA. This does not however exclude them from receiving benefits and grievance procedures provided for by the same basic agreement as all Major League baseball players. For never having paid a union due in his entire life, not excluding the huge salary he made in baseball, his widow and six year old son will receive a yearly pension or $165,000. That is much more than some of the greatest players of all time ever made in a season.

Now Cory will never reap the benefit for which others paid the price for, but his widow and young son will be taken care of for the rest of their life because of the sacrifice of those that came before them. I wonder if any of the "scabs" that crossed the pickets lines ever thought about giving the MiLB umpires a leg up so that maybe their families could be taken care in case of an untimely death of one of their loved ones. I suppose the lure of a little cash and celebrity for a short time was worth it. It wouldn't and never would for me.

I'm not saying the MiLB umpires would have gotten as sweet a deal as MLB umpires. Not ever remotely close. They just wouldn't have gotten as raw a deal as they received if not for the petty motives of a few. When you think about, you hurt the man, you hurt his family, also.

Cory Fulton Lidle 1972-2006
BTW-His middle name is Fulton because he is a direct descendant of Robert Fulton who invent the steamboat.

[JRutledge]

I am not trying to be funny, but can we drop this issue already. You are not going to convince anyone either way and personally there is nothing constructive coming out of this conversation. Go ahead and have the conversation, but you someone should warn you.

Peace

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by PWL

I'm putting this out there for the people that were so anti-union during the MiLB strike. It has to do with the recent death of Cory Lidle. I not sure many of you know that Lidle was to be a "replacement" player with the Mets before management and the players' union came to an agreement. In what amounted to a nine year major league career for Lidle for which he played for seven teams he amassed a record of 82-72. In this amount of time, he appeared in a total of 277 games, 199 of which were starts. His career high in wins for a seasons was 13 which he did twice. So, almost 1/3 of his wins came in two seasons. For this he made untold millions as a journeyman pitcher. As far as I know, players who were "replacement" players have never, nor will ever, be allowed to join the MLBPA. This does not however exclude them from receiving benefits and grievance procedures provided for by the same basic agreement as all Major League baseball players. For never having paid a union due in his entire life, not excluding the huge salary he made in baseball, his widow and six year old son will receive a yearly pension or $165,000. That is much more than some of the greatest players of all time ever made in a season.

Now Cory will never reap the benefit for which others paid the price for, but his widow and young son will be taken care of for the rest of their life because of the sacrifice of those that came before them. I wonder if any of the "scabs" that crossed the pickets lines ever thought about giving the MiLB umpires a leg up so that maybe their families could be taken care in case of an untimely death of one of their loved ones. I suppose the lure of a little cash and celebrity for a short time was worth it. It wouldn't and never would for me.

I'm not saying the MiLB umpires would have gotten as sweet a deal as MLB umpires. Not ever remotely close. They just wouldn't have gotten as raw a deal as they received if not for the petty motives of a few. When you think about, you hurt the man, you hurt his family, also.

Cory Fulton Lidle 1972-2006
BTW-His middle name is Fulton because he is a direct descendant of Robert Fulton who invent the steamboat.

I believe you have made two errors. First, in situations where one is not a member of the union but receives the benefits of the unions negotiations, the unjion contract with management normally requires that person to still pay a fee to the union that is equal to the dues that members pay.

This is the case with teacher's unions and several trade unions of which I am aware.

The second error is in demonstrating the bad judgement to try to use this tragedy to further a personal political opinion.

[kylejt]

Of course you can always look at the flip side of unions, and see what the UAW has done to Detriot.

Not a big fan.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by GarthB

I believe you have made two errors. First, in situations where one is not a member of the union but receives the benefits of the unions negotiations, the union contract with management normally requires that person to still pay a fee to the union that is equal to the dues that members pay.

This is the case with teacher's unions and several trade unions of which I am aware.

This is correct, more or less, regarding the union that negotiates my contract. The "Fair Share" fee that non-members pay includes the costs of both negotiating and enforcing the contract, and according to the union this amount is approximately 98% of union dues. This union, however, does almost nothing else.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Of course you can always look at the flip side of unions, and see what the UAW has done to Detriot.

Not a big fan.

Sounds like somebody's been imbibing at the right-wing propaganda trough.

If you think that the actions of a labor union can explain what has happened over the last 30 years to the city of Detroit and/or the U.S. auto industry, then you don't think enough.

[kylejt]

It goes back to the sixties, when lug nut fasteners were making WAY too much money for their skill set. Not the only reason for their demise (ever drive a Cordoba?), but none too helpful.

I was in a union for 20+ years. A do nothing, pocket lining crew that got outed when I took over and decertified them. That's where my distain for organized labor eminates from. I'm FAR better off negotiating my own deals, thank you very much.

And I'm as far from Limbaugh goosestepper as you can find. Although, IMO, if you have membership card in any political party you're just letting someone else do the leg work for your brain.

Wow, this soap box is getting pretty rickety. Better step off now.

[PWL]

Originally Posted by GarthB

I believe you have made two errors. First, in situations where one is not a member of the union but receives the benefits of the unions negotiations, the unjion contract with management normally requires that person to still pay a fee to the union that is equal to the dues that members pay.

This is the case with teacher's unions and several trade unions of which I am aware.

The second error is in demonstrating the bad judgement to try to use this tragedy to further a personal political opinion.

Yes, you have to pay associate dues for some things. Say you want to use medical insurance that is provided by said union. However, he was entitled to free union representation. Not by his choice perhaps, but by the members of the MLBPA. I'm sure in this case he was fully vested in the MLB retirement program. I am not familiar with each and every trade union at the local, state, and national level. I was not using a personal tragedy to make a political statement. I was putting out the message that unions look out for each and every person, regardless. The fact that the Lidle family will be taken care of very well for life. The petty excuses some made to cross the picket line. There was plenty of union bashing, no matter what union it was. They took the blame for a failing economy, etc.

People drive a Chevrolet because they claim they buy American. They say they wouldn't drive a "foreign" car. Unless they're driving an expensive import such as a Mercedes or Porcshe, they are buying an American made car. Toyota and Nissan have factories in America. It will take you longer to get one of these cars in Japan. How many of them work for foreign owned companies?

My one and only point was, will all these people that felt compelled to cross the picket lines think unions are so bad was if something was to happen to them. Would there be some one to step up and take care of their family? It feels good to know someone has your back when you really need it the most.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by PWL

Yes, you have to pay associate dues for some things. Say you want to use medical insurance that is provided by said union. However, he was entitled to free union representation. .

Unions are entitled by federal law to force non members covered by their contracts to pay dues. If he was covered, he paid. I know of no union that will not take full benefit of what the law allows.

Your point could have been made without exploiting the death, and the imagery of the family, of this young man.

[BlueLawyer]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am not trying to be funny, but can we drop this issue already. You are not going to convince anyone either way and personally there is nothing constructive coming out of this conversation. Go ahead and have the conversation, but you someone should warn you.

Peace

Well said, Jeff.

[briancurtin]

Originally Posted by PWL

For never having paid a union due in his entire life, not excluding the huge salary he made in baseball, his widow and six year old son will receive a yearly pension or $165,000.

was it found out yet whether or not he was flying the plane when it crashed? i havent kept up with this over the last few days, but the last thing i read was that if he was found to be flying the plane, that pension is out the window because it violates part of the contract about not flying planes.

[PWL]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Unions are entitled by federal law to force non members covered by their contracts to pay dues. If he was covered, he paid. I know of no union that will not take full benefit of what the law allows.

Your point could have been made without exploiting the death, and the imagery of the family, of this young man.

So you are saying a "closed shop" is Federal law? None, I repeat none, of the unions associated with the United States Postal Service (a branch of the Federal government) require that a person that is employed in any craft or management position belong or pay dues to the union that is associated with which position they are employed.

Now your just blowing smoke out your a** to sound smart. Sometimes you have to consider the source. He was "blackballed" out of his union. Do you expect him to pay dues also? He more than likely contributed to this pension. I would have to read their contract to be totally accurate, but I have dealt enough with different unions to know what flies and what doesn't. I've worked enough arbitration and EEOC complaints to tell what is what.

I usually didn't deal with the inner working of the unions themselves, but I knew a good grievance or EEO complaint when I saw one. They usually went hand in hand.

I wonder what Thurman Munson's widow gets a year? I'd bet is is less than a quarter of what Lidle is getting. The union has strengthened to say the least. I was merely pointing out how the MLBPA as strong as it has become was making sure that is family was provided for. Non-member or not. Not all unions are this powerful, but they all not the evil monsters they make them out to be.

[PWL]

Originally Posted by briancurtin

was it found out yet whether or not he was flying the plane when it crashed? i haven't kept up with this over the last few days, but the last thing i read was that if he was found to be flying the plane, that pension is out the window because it violates part of the contract about not flying planes.

His contract with the Yankees had expired. He was a free agent soon to be. No contract to violate...............

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by PWL

So you are saying a "closed shop" is Federal law? None, I repeat none, of the unions associated with the United States Postal Service (a branch of the Federal government) require that a person that is employed in any craft or management position belong or pay dues to the union that is associated with which position they are employed.

Now your just blowing smoke out your a** to sound smart. Sometimes you have to consider the source. He was "blackballed" out of his union. Do you expect him to pay dues also? He more than likely contributed to this pension. I would have to read their contract to be totally accurate, but I have dealt enough with different unions to know what flies and what doesn't. I've worked enough arbitration and EEOC complaints to tell what is what.

I usually didn't deal with the inner working of the unions themselves, but I knew a good grievance or EEO complaint when I saw one. They usually went hand in hand.

I wonder what Thurman Munson's widow gets a year? I'd bet is is less than a quarter of what Lidle is getting. The union has strengthened to say the least. I was merely pointing out how the MLBPA as strong as it has become was making sure that is family was provided for. Non-member or not. Not all unions are this powerful, but they all not the evil monsters they make them out to be.

You apparently can't read. I said the law allows for it, I didn't say it made it mandatory. Both mbyron and I have given you examples with which we have first hand knowledge. I am willing to bet that the players union also takes advantage of this law.

But, regardless, you, with your tasteless effort to promote your politics. your lack of ability to understand English and your contempt for facts, have earned a spot on a special list. I don't find the entertainment value in arguing with you that SDS and BU do. See ya.

[ignore list=open]
[insert PWL]
[ignore list=closed]

[PWL]

Garth,

Brush up on your labor laws if you want to insult me. Nice way to lose an argument. YOU'RE ON IGNORE Guess you ain't the know-it-all everyone claims. What the law allows and what actually happens are two different things. See, I've been there, done that. More often than you have or ever will be. Let's just say the student taught the teacher a lesson this time.

I had no personal agenda other than to point out the obvious. However, you as usual had to try and take it and tear it apart. Way to run with a line....