Never thought of this one . . .

[greymule]

I know that a runner who has legally scored cannot return to 3B no matter what kind of mistaken impression he is under, such as thinking he left too soon on a catch.

However—

OBR. One out as Abel on 3B takes off for home on a suicide squeeze. Baker, having missed the sign, swings and hits a high infield pop just before a terrified Abel slides across the plate. Abel, thinking the ball will be caught, retouches home and starts to return to 3B. F6, trying to set himself to catch and throw to 3B on what appears to be developing as a close play, drops the ball. Abel then slides back into 3B.

Did Abel legally score?

[mattmets]

No. Had Abel touched home before the pitch was released, I would count the run as a stolen base on TOP. However, since he did not score before the pitch, he has not acquired home and is fair game to be doubled off third.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by mattmets

No. Had Abel touched home before the pitch was released, I would count the run as a stolen base on TOP. However, since he did not score before the pitch, he has not acquired home and is fair game to be doubled off third.

The ball was dropped. No double-off can happen as there is no longer a re-touch requirement.

[UmpJM]

greymule,

Yes, he did legally score. So his attempt to return is meaningless & has no effect.

Had the ball been legally caught, he would not have legally scored and his return to 3B is legitimate & necessary.

JM

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by greymule

I know that a runner who has legally scored cannot return to 3B no matter what kind of mistaken impression he is under, such as thinking he left too soon on a catch.

However—

OBR. One out as Abel on 3B takes off for home on a suicide squeeze. Baker, having missed the sign, swings and hits a high infield pop just before a terrified Abel slides across the plate. Abel, thinking the ball will be caught, retouches home and starts to return to 3B. F6, trying to set himself to catch and throw to 3B on what appears to be developing as a close play, drops the ball. Abel then slides back into 3B.

Did Abel legally score?

Yes. Why would you think otherwise?

[GarthB]

I think mattmets misread the play as pertains to the actions of F6.

Score the run.

[mattmets]

Originally Posted by GarthB

I think mattmets misread the play as pertains to the actions of F6.

Score the run.

Exactly. Remedial moment there.

But had the ball been caught, would my explanation have been correct, veteran guys?

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by mattmets

...
But had the ball been caught, would my explanation have been correct, veteran guys?

Matt,

Not exactly. The R3 would have had to have reached home prior to the pitcher initiating his delivery in order to be relieved of his retouch liability on a legally caught batted ball.

JM

[SAump]

I will be the first to admit that this is one thread I never thought about before. If I had a runner who legally scored and then wanted to re-touch 3B after first touching HOME, I would have allowed it. Who am I to take away his right to run the bases at his own risk or retouch any base he so chooses? If he chooses to re-touch after a grounder up the middle, I would have allowed that too. Imagine if the runner, after stepping on home plate, takes 15 steps back up the third baseline to watch the play unfold and is then thrown OUT at the plate. What do I have? Help me understand this statement from CoachJM above, "So his attempt to return is meaningless & has no effect."

[greymule]

If a runner has legally scored, he can't unscore himself. The standard example is this:

Abel on 3B tags up and scores after Baker hits a long fly ball that is caught. However, Abel thinks he might have left too soon and so returns to 3B as the throw comes in to the infield. Even if Abel stays on 3B with the ball on the mound, the umpire has to direct him off the base. He scored legally and that cannot be undone.

In my original post, I was thinking that maybe the timing would have an effect, but it wouldn't. The runner legally scored on the play and can't unscore.