Never thought of this one . . .

[greymule]

I know that a runner who has legally scored cannot return to 3B no matter what kind of mistaken impression he is under, such as thinking he left too soon on a catch.

However—

OBR. One out as Abel on 3B takes off for home on a suicide squeeze. Baker, having missed the sign, swings and hits a high infield pop just before a terrified Abel slides across the plate. Abel, thinking the ball will be caught, retouches home and starts to return to 3B. F6, trying to set himself to catch and throw to 3B on what appears to be developing as a close play, drops the ball. Abel then slides back into 3B.

Did Abel legally score?

[mattmets]

No. Had Abel touched home before the pitch was released, I would count the run as a stolen base on TOP. However, since he did not score before the pitch, he has not acquired home and is fair game to be doubled off third.

[UmpJM]

greymule,

Yes, he did legally score. So his attempt to return is meaningless & has no effect.

Had the ball been legally caught, he would not have legally scored and his return to 3B is legitimate & necessary.

JM

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by greymule

I know that a runner who has legally scored cannot return to 3B no matter what kind of mistaken impression he is under, such as thinking he left too soon on a catch.

However—

OBR. One out as Abel on 3B takes off for home on a suicide squeeze. Baker, having missed the sign, swings and hits a high infield pop just before a terrified Abel slides across the plate. Abel, thinking the ball will be caught, retouches home and starts to return to 3B. F6, trying to set himself to catch and throw to 3B on what appears to be developing as a close play, drops the ball. Abel then slides back into 3B.

Did Abel legally score?

Yes. Why would you think otherwise?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by mattmets

No. Had Abel touched home before the pitch was released, I would count the run as a stolen base on TOP. However, since he did not score before the pitch, he has not acquired home and is fair game to be doubled off third.

The ball was dropped. No double-off can happen as there is no longer a re-touch requirement.

[GarthB]

I think mattmets misread the play as pertains to the actions of F6.

Score the run.

[mattmets]

Originally Posted by GarthB

I think mattmets misread the play as pertains to the actions of F6.

Score the run.

Exactly. Remedial moment there.

But had the ball been caught, would my explanation have been correct, veteran guys?

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by mattmets

...
But had the ball been caught, would my explanation have been correct, veteran guys?

Matt,

Not exactly. The R3 would have had to have reached home prior to the pitcher initiating his delivery in order to be relieved of his retouch liability on a legally caught batted ball.

JM

[SAump]

I will be the first to admit that this is one thread I never thought about before. If I had a runner who legally scored and then wanted to re-touch 3B after first touching HOME, I would have allowed it. Who am I to take away his right to run the bases at his own risk or retouch any base he so chooses? If he chooses to re-touch after a grounder up the middle, I would have allowed that too. Imagine if the runner, after stepping on home plate, takes 15 steps back up the third baseline to watch the play unfold and is then thrown OUT at the plate. What do I have? Help me understand this statement from CoachJM above, "So his attempt to return is meaningless & has no effect."

[greymule]

If a runner has legally scored, he can't unscore himself. The standard example is this:

Abel on 3B tags up and scores after Baker hits a long fly ball that is caught. However, Abel thinks he might have left too soon and so returns to 3B as the throw comes in to the infield. Even if Abel stays on 3B with the ball on the mound, the umpire has to direct him off the base. He scored legally and that cannot be undone.

In my original post, I was thinking that maybe the timing would have an effect, but it wouldn't. The runner legally scored on the play and can't unscore.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by greymule

If a runner has legally scored, he can't unscore himself. The standard example is this:

Abel on 3B tags up and scores after Baker hits a long fly ball that is caught. However, Abel thinks he might have left too soon and so returns to 3B as the throw comes in to the infield. Even if Abel stays on 3B with the ball on the mound, the umpire has to direct him off the base. He scored legally and that cannot be undone.

In my original post, I was thinking that maybe the timing would have an effect, but it wouldn't. The runner legally scored on the play and can't unscore.

Thanks for the helpful posts. This was good and I hope it helped others that may not have bothered to ask. If the defense also attempts to make a play on the confused runner and succesfully complete the apparent out at 3B, I can see a whole lot of "confusion" erupting from their bleachers. I guess now I have the CORRECT understanding of what I need to explain to a befuddled coach. I welcome any other comments or additional info from other knowledgeable sources on how to properly address this situation.

[SAump]

OBR 5.06
When a batter becomes a runner and touches all bases legally he shall score one run for his team.
Rule 5.06 Comment: A run legally scored cannot be nullified by subsequent action of the runner, such as but not limited to an effort to return to third base in the belief that he had left the base before a caught fly ball.

[phillips.alex]

ok, so you cannot "unscore" yourself. But can you be legally put out? I would have to say yes, as there is a very good possibility of interference here. Think of it this way: abel returns to third after retouching home. The fly ball is dropped (unintentional). Now the outfielder throws to 3rd to try and put out Abel, even though he is no longer a legal runner. The defense could have easily put out the batter/runner. Do you call interference? I certainly would. But here is the tricky part: Can you call the runner at third out for interference as well as calling out the runner at first? or should you just get rid of the runner at third (due to his not legally being there) and just count the out at first? Interesting.....

[greymule]

A runner who has legally scored cannot be put out. Of course, if he subsequently deliberately interferes with a play, the runner being played on would be out. If the runner who scored mistakenly believes he missed a base or left too soon, gets himself back on the basepaths, and draws a throw, he would not by that act alone be guilty of interference.