Dropped third strike

[LLPA13UmpDan]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

This is but one good method that works, and will not end up like the Eddings fiasco of 2005.

better not, I dont wanna earn the nick name Doug Eddings

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I would not give a safe signal in this situation. I would do anything. I also do not like the punch or "out" mechanic as my strike. I think the safe mechanic puts you in a bind. I would let the play go and if I clearly do not have a catch I will not "out" the batter. If a catcher is unsure, they should tag the batter and most of this is over. The Edding's situation was much more about what the catcher did than what the umpire called. If the catcher would have just tagged the batter, much of what had happen would have never taken place.

Peace

Yeah, like I said, there are other ways. Rut has just given another. But, the safe signal was used by Ed Rapuano, as Ace pointed out, so at least it's getting some play in the bigs.

[socalblue1]

The mechanic advised by Steve is taught at the pro scholls and is expeted in MiLB and in most NCAA conferences. (The older mechanic was to raise the right are horizontal and verbalize "no catch")

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Yeah, like I said, there are other ways. Rut has just given another. But, the safe signal was used by Ed Rapuano, as Ace pointed out, so at least it's getting some play in the bigs.

The signals, in my opinion, are important but not as important as the verbal. The catcher and batter should get a verbal OUT when there is an out or no out.

This is a similar situation, is it not? A pulled foot at 2nd base at the beginning of an apparent double play. The BU should make a safe signal AND verbalize something. Would anyone suggest to remain mute in this situation?

Joe

[socalblue1]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

The signals, in my opinion, are important but not as important as the verbal. The catcher and batter should get a verbal OUT when there is an out or no out.

This is a similar situation, is it not? A pulled foot at 2nd base at the beginning of an apparent double play. The BU should make a safe signal AND verbalize something. Would anyone suggest to remain mute in this situation?

Joe

Joe,

Good points! The pro schools and most clinics teach to verbalize anything out of the ordinary or when something unexpected happens. I have found this to be very good advise over the years.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by socalblue1

The mechanic advised by Steve is taught at the pro scholls and is expeted in MiLB and in most NCAA conferences. (The older mechanic was to raise the right are horizontal and verbalize "no catch")

Not in the ones I've attended ... and neither has the other fake mechanic mentioned above.

As an aside to LLDan - isn't it interesting that even your supporters assume you are about 12 years old (calling you kid and new umpire, etc, despite some of the assertions to your own experience you've made elsewhere.) That tell you anything?

Dan - what's the proper mechanic for signaling that the 2nd baseman is about to field the ball. That's the same mechanic you should signal for a dropped 3rd strike, if you are PU.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

The signals, in my opinion, are important but not as important as the verbal. The catcher and batter should get a verbal OUT when there is an out or no out.

This is a similar situation, is it not? A pulled foot at 2nd base at the beginning of an apparent double play. The BU should make a safe signal AND verbalize something. Would anyone suggest to remain mute in this situation?

Joe

The signal is made up. Use it if you like. I'll ding you if I'm evaluating...

I agree, however, on the verbal. If it's close, call it an out verbally. If it's not an out, or it's not close, say nothing.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Not in the ones I've attended ... and neither has the other fake mechanic mentioned above.

And just what pro school did you attend? I've read many of your posts, and nothing in them indicated the knowledge acquired at a pro school.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

And just what pro school did you attend? I've read many of your posts, and nothing in them indicated the knowledge acquired at a pro school.

JE - twice. Last year and 2003. Thanks for asking.

And you telling me I'm wrong is the highest compliment I can get.

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

The signal is made up. Use it if you like. I'll ding you if I'm evaluating...

Its funny you mention a ding at an evaluation because just this past spring, I was dinged on an eval during an NCAA game for not using the mechanic described by Steve. I was told that the reason we do this is to avoid confusion on the field. I guess it must depend on what your evaluator wants.

I equate this to giving a 'safe' mechanic when a batted ball passes close to a runner but there is no interference. By initiating these mechanics, don't you think it heads off any questions like, "He caught that pitch." and "That's interference."

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

JE - twice. Last year and 2003. Thanks for asking.

And you telling me I'm wrong is the highest compliment I can get.

2005 and 2003. Hmmmmm. Aren't both of these years' school sessions prior to the Doug Eddings debacle, which has changed the way the mechanic is taught? No wonder it wasn't taught, there was not yet the need to teach it! Don't try to say that SoCal is wrong now, based on what you didn't get taught in '03 and '05.

[UmpJM]

And,

For anyone interested in Jim Evans' thoughts on the subject, you can find them in the thread linked below:

Evans take on the Eddings Play

Personally, I'd be inclined to go with what he said.

JM

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

And,

For anyone interested in Jim Evans' thoughts on the subject, you can find them in the thread linked below:

Evans take on the Eddings Play

Personally, I'd be inclined to go with what he said.

JM

And this is pretty damn close to what SoCal and I said is the way it's being taught since the Eddings caper.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

2005 and 2003. Hmmmmm. Aren't both of these years' school sessions prior to the Doug Eddings debacle, which has changed the way the mechanic is taught? No wonder it wasn't taught, there was not yet the need to teach it! Don't try to say that SoCal is wrong now, based on what you didn't get taught in '03 and '05.

A fair point.

So ... who here went this year - did they actually teach this? It hasn't yet filtered down to anything I've attended ... but I'm not TOO old a dog to learn new tricks though.

Personally, I think the Eddings Debacle was more along the lines of his ambiguous signal - his actual signal didn't look like what he'd been using earlier. And also personally, I think "He's Out!" works just fine in borderline sitches like this.

[SanDiegoSteve]

I have found that SoCalBlue has his ear to the ground when it comes to what's going on in umpiring, so I just trust that the info he supplies is accurate.