LL Mandatory Play

[PeteBooth]

That notwithstanding, I think the rule absolutely bites the big one.

Why?

* It deprives thousands of kids worldwide from playing LL tourney (most teams are carrying less than the 14 max. players to reduce subbing; in my area, IMHO, a scant number of teams have carried 14 since MPU rule came into play).

* It takes coaching out of the game. Got that little junkball reliever? Now he's gotta bat and play 3 outs in the field! Can't tell you how many coaches have complained to me about this (and for once, they're right). No pinch-runner, or one of my favorite ploys, the Eddie Gaedel designated walker.

* Little Johnny had all regular season with MPR. Why not let kids who worked hard to make tourney teams play something more similar to actual baseball?

* I saw an invocation of "other coach calls the sub" this year when a kid got hurt. This is baseball?

First off IMO you are missing the point.

This is All Stars so it's not like players 12 through 14 cannot play the game.

The International teams do not seem to have a problem with the rule. I believe last year the team that won had no problem getting 14 kids in the game whereas the US team only had 11.

I agree with Dave in that the "old" rule was better but EVERYONE is playing with the same rules so IMO it is inexusable for a Coach who Forfeits a game because all of his players did not meet MPR.

As for your comment about playing "real" baseball. Until LL moves the bases to 70ft. and allows runners to lead off, run on an uncaught third strike etc. then talk to me about "real" baseball.

This is All Stars not the regular season where a coach gets stuck "babysitting" for a handful of kids. The All Stars are selected.

Pete Booth

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

As for your comment about playing "real" baseball. Until LL moves the bases to 70ft. and allows runners to lead off, run on an uncaught third strike etc. then talk to me about "real" baseball.

Pete Booth

70' is "real" baseball?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by GarthB

70' is "real" baseball?

Actually, the distance to the base isn't what determines whether or not it's real baseball. The other rules he mentioned are what determines it. Mustang League in the PONY organization plays "real baseball" on 60ft. bases because of their age (9-10). But they have leadoffs, pickoffs, balks, uncaught 3rd strikes, and all the other goodies associtated with "real baseball." There is no arbitrary diamond size or age group that distinguishes real baseball from anything less.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Actually, the distance to the base isn't what determines whether or not it's real baseball. The other rules he mentioned are what determines it. Mustang League in the PONY organization plays "real baseball" on 60ft. bases because of their age (9-10). But they have leadoffs, pickoffs, balks, uncaught 3rd strikes, and all the other goodies associtated with "real baseball." There is no arbitrary diamond size or age group that distinguishes real baseball from anything less.

Oh, THAT makes it real baseball. Every walk is a triple.

[GarthB]

"Real" baseball is not played on 60', 70' or 80' diamonds. I am familiar with a number of youth organization's rules and add-ons. None of them play "real" baseball.

There is no "real" baseball below the MiLB level.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GarthB

"Real" baseball is not played on 60', 70' or 80' diamonds. I am familiar with a number of youth organization's rules and add-ons. None of them play "real" baseball.

There is no "real" baseball below the MiLB level.

So you're saying that HS and college baseball isn't real baseball?

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

So you're saying that HS and college baseball isn't real baseball?

Yes. College is a game very similar, but unless you are using OBR without any effin add-ons and safety rules, it ain't "real" baseball. I've heard from several local college players who got drafted and who say, "it's great to be playing real baseball."

Remember now, I am talking about the game itself, not the quality of play.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by GarthB

There is no "real" baseball below the MiLB level.

I guess unless we're pro umpires, we've just been wasting our time all these years. Damn, before coming on these internet charlie sites, I was a pretty confident and happy sports official. Now I find out I've been working fake baseball all this time. How depressing.

[Carbide Keyman]

I was feelin' real good about myself and my umpirin' till I found out that bein' a XXL shirt wearin', +POS chest protector wearin', HSM wearin' should disqualify me from being a good umpire and bein' seen in public as a member of the umpirin' community.

I'm shore glad it was pointed out to me before I made a fool of myself !




Doug

[PeteBooth]

Originally Posted by GarthB

"Real" baseball is not played on 60', 70' or 80' diamonds. I am familiar with a number of youth organization's rules and add-ons. None of them play "real" baseball.

There is no "real" baseball below the MiLB level.

Garth, that is your opinion but I disagree with it. So what Pete Rose did to Ray Fosse in the All Star Game is "REAL" baseball.

The Term for "real" baseball means players can lead off the bases, stealing allowed, Balks are enforced etc. etc.

The one thing I do not like is the metal bats. The game IMO was meant for wood.

I do not know of any league other than PRO Ball that does not have safety caveats and for good reason, however that does not mean they are not playing "Real" baseball.

Since you are using EXTREMES, I will also go to the extreme as well. Today in MLB we have the DH, InterLeague Play, Wild card teams, The pitching mound was lowered. The baseballs are juiced (as are the players), ball parks are smaller. In addition, F1 cannot retaliate the way they could in the past. Today after F1 hits a batter and in the judgement of the umpire warrants a warning, the next F1 (normally the one who retaliates) is ejected. Not so when Gibson, Kofax, Drysdale pitched.

So does the aforementioned mean that prior to the changes that MLB put in place, the players "back in the day" played "REAL" baseball and the players today are playing an "imitation" form.

To each his own as they say.

Pete Booth

[woolnojg]

Joe,
I can get three outs from bases loaded even with a ball thown out of play, with no outs to start with.
Runner from 1st passes runner on 2nd. Runner from first is now out.
Runner on 2nd now passes runner on 3rd. Runner from 2nd is now out.
Runner on 3rd will now head into the dugout. 3rd out.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Garth, that is your opinion but I disagree with it.

Uh...okay.

[Pete in AZ]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

First off IMO you are missing the point.

This is All Stars so it's not like players 12 through 14 cannot play the game.

The International teams do not seem to have a problem with the rule. I believe last year the team that won had no problem getting 14 kids in the game whereas the US team only had 11.

I agree with Dave in that the "old" rule was better but EVERYONE is playing with the same rules so IMO it is inexusable for a Coach who Forfeits a game because all of his players did not meet MPR.

As for your comment about playing "real" baseball. Until LL moves the bases to 70ft. and allows runners to lead off, run on an uncaught third strike etc. then talk to me about "real" baseball.

This is All Stars not the regular season where a coach gets stuck "babysitting" for a handful of kids. The All Stars are selected.

Pete Booth

Didn't you see the story on ESPN.com about the Utah coach? That was no all star team...those were local kids playing and the kid who made the last out had two hits all season. Playoff baseball at that level is about playing...not watching.

[jwwashburn]

I have to throw a screwball here.

OK, HOW could this coach get into this situation? This is as bad as Marty Morningweig(Sp?) choosing to kick in overtime.

Even worse...WHY didn't he have his pitcher throw the pitch out of play? would that not have caused a run to score? LL has one base from the pitching plate, right?

Coaches should know the dang rules.

Joe

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

I have to throw a screwball here.

OK, HOW could this coach get into this situation? This is as bad as Marty Morningweig(Sp?) choosing to kick in overtime.

Even worse...WHY didn't he have his pitcher throw the pitch out of play? would that not have caused a run to score? LL has one base from the pitching plate, right?

Coaches should know the dang rules.

Joe

I didn't think about throwing it out of play. That would have worked, I am curious to know what the umpires would have done. Rules say that one base is awarded TOP, but they had already ejected a player and a coach for trying to lose the game. What else can you do?

Here's a solution, call them strikes!

Better yet, throw out all the coaches, and then say, no coaches left? Sorry, game over.

In all actuality, the TD should have stopped the game, called Williamsport, told them how awful it was, and then Williamsport could have forfeited the game to NH before it was over based off the actions of VT. That would have been the best, and most realistic, thing to do, rather then have the NH coach have his kids intentionally strike out. That made this incident go from funny to sad.