LL Mandatory Play

[Pete in AZ]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

First off IMO you are missing the point.

This is All Stars so it's not like players 12 through 14 cannot play the game.

The International teams do not seem to have a problem with the rule. I believe last year the team that won had no problem getting 14 kids in the game whereas the US team only had 11.

I agree with Dave in that the "old" rule was better but EVERYONE is playing with the same rules so IMO it is inexusable for a Coach who Forfeits a game because all of his players did not meet MPR.

As for your comment about playing "real" baseball. Until LL moves the bases to 70ft. and allows runners to lead off, run on an uncaught third strike etc. then talk to me about "real" baseball.

This is All Stars not the regular season where a coach gets stuck "babysitting" for a handful of kids. The All Stars are selected.

Pete Booth

Didn't you see the story on ESPN.com about the Utah coach? That was no all star team...those were local kids playing and the kid who made the last out had two hits all season. Playoff baseball at that level is about playing...not watching.

[jwwashburn]

I have to throw a screwball here.

OK, HOW could this coach get into this situation? This is as bad as Marty Morningweig(Sp?) choosing to kick in overtime.

Even worse...WHY didn't he have his pitcher throw the pitch out of play? would that not have caused a run to score? LL has one base from the pitching plate, right?

Coaches should know the dang rules.

Joe

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

I have to throw a screwball here.

OK, HOW could this coach get into this situation? This is as bad as Marty Morningweig(Sp?) choosing to kick in overtime.

Even worse...WHY didn't he have his pitcher throw the pitch out of play? would that not have caused a run to score? LL has one base from the pitching plate, right?

Coaches should know the dang rules.

Joe

I didn't think about throwing it out of play. That would have worked, I am curious to know what the umpires would have done. Rules say that one base is awarded TOP, but they had already ejected a player and a coach for trying to lose the game. What else can you do?

Here's a solution, call them strikes!

Better yet, throw out all the coaches, and then say, no coaches left? Sorry, game over.

In all actuality, the TD should have stopped the game, called Williamsport, told them how awful it was, and then Williamsport could have forfeited the game to NH before it was over based off the actions of VT. That would have been the best, and most realistic, thing to do, rather then have the NH coach have his kids intentionally strike out. That made this incident go from funny to sad.

[Dave Hensley]

I don't take the "real baseball" bait. There's pro baseball, there's college, there's HS, there's Connie Mack, there's amateur adult baseball, and yes, there's Litte League (both trademarked and generic) baseball. And on and on.

In 1994 when my two sons were pretty much at the peak of their fanaticism over what some here are calling "real" baseball, the "real" baseball players went on strike. My boys were devastated, until I packed them in the van and took them on a little vacation. We saw MiLB games, we saw independent pro games, and we saw high school summer leagues playing baseball that was real enough for us.

That strike wasn't, and wasn't close to, the end of baseball. Pardon my James Earl Jones imitation, but as long as there are youth fields and high school fields and beer league fields dotting the landscape, people will be playing, watching, and umpiring baseball, whether the bonus babies are out there performing or not.

F**k "real" baseball. The baseball I participate in is real enough for me.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

I don't take the "real baseball" bait. There's pro baseball, there's college, there's HS, there's Connie Mack, there's amateur adult baseball, and yes, there's Litte League (both trademarked and generic) baseball. And on and on.

In 1994 when my two sons were pretty much at the peak of their fanaticism over what some here are calling "real" baseball, the "real" baseball players went on strike. My boys were devastated, until I packed them in the van and took them on a little vacation. We saw MiLB games, we saw independent pro games, and we saw high school summer leagues playing baseball that was real enough for us.

That strike wasn't, and wasn't close to, the end of baseball. Pardon my James Earl Jones imitation, but as long as there are youth fields and high school fields and beer league fields dotting the landscape, people will be playing, watching, and umpiring baseball, whether the bonus babies are out there performing or not.

F**k "real" baseball. The baseball I participate in is real enough for me.

Dave,

I didn't use it as bait. I responded to the ridiculous argument various youth organizations have with one another over who has "real" baseball. I took that argument to the extreme to point out that none of them can lay claim to "real" baseball.

[Jurassic Referee]

Here's a follow-up story from USA Today:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseb...-forfeit_x.htm

What I kinda found amazing was that the Vermont team only was carrying eleven kids in this game instead of their regular roster of 13 because of injuries. A supposedly experienced coach couldn't figure out how to get two(2) subs legally into the game? And he blames everybody else for his screw-up? Yeah...right!

[mick]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Here's a follow-up story from USA Today:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseb...-forfeit_x.htm

What I kinda found amazing was that the Vermont team only was carrying eleven kids in this game instead of their regular roster of 13 because of injuries. A supposedly experienced coach couldn't figure out how to get two(2) subs legally into the game? And he blames everybody else for his screw-up? Yeah...right!

Yes, JR, that is quite amazing. I would bet the two injured players were encouraged to be injured.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Dave,

I didn't use it as bait. I responded to the ridiculous argument various youth organizations have with one another over who has "real" baseball. I took that argument to the extreme to point out that none of them can lay claim to "real" baseball.

I understand and agree with your point.

[PeteBooth]

Originally Posted by GarthB

"Real" baseball is not played on 60', 70' or 80' diamonds. I am familiar with a number of youth organization's rules and add-ons. None of them play "real" baseball.

There is no "real" baseball below the MiLB level.

Garth, that is your opinion but I disagree with it. So what Pete Rose did to Ray Fosse in the All Star Game is "REAL" baseball.

The Term for "real" baseball means players can lead off the bases, stealing allowed, Balks are enforced etc. etc.

The one thing I do not like is the metal bats. The game IMO was meant for wood.

I do not know of any league other than PRO Ball that does not have safety caveats and for good reason, however that does not mean they are not playing "Real" baseball.

Since you are using EXTREMES, I will also go to the extreme as well. Today in MLB we have the DH, InterLeague Play, Wild card teams, The pitching mound was lowered. The baseballs are juiced (as are the players), ball parks are smaller. In addition, F1 cannot retaliate the way they could in the past. Today after F1 hits a batter and in the judgement of the umpire warrants a warning, the next F1 (normally the one who retaliates) is ejected. Not so when Gibson, Kofax, Drysdale pitched.

So does the aforementioned mean that prior to the changes that MLB put in place, the players "back in the day" played "REAL" baseball and the players today are playing an "imitation" form.

To each his own as they say.

Pete Booth

[woolnojg]

Joe,
I can get three outs from bases loaded even with a ball thown out of play, with no outs to start with.
Runner from 1st passes runner on 2nd. Runner from first is now out.
Runner on 2nd now passes runner on 3rd. Runner from 2nd is now out.
Runner on 3rd will now head into the dugout. 3rd out.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Garth, that is your opinion but I disagree with it.

Uh...okay.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by woolnojg

Joe,
I can get three outs from bases loaded even with a ball thown out of play, with no outs to start with.
Runner from 1st passes runner on 2nd. Runner from first is now out.
Runner on 2nd now passes runner on 3rd. Runner from 2nd is now out.
Runner on 3rd will now head into the dugout. 3rd out.

T.W.P.

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by woolnojg

Joe,
I can get three outs from bases loaded even with a ball thown out of play, with no outs to start with.
Runner from 1st passes runner on 2nd. Runner from first is now out.
Runner on 2nd now passes runner on 3rd. Runner from 2nd is now out.
Runner on 3rd will now head into the dugout. 3rd out.

If the coach did this, he should be awarded victory just for knowing the rules. He should also win a golden medallion!

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

T.W.P.

It's not a TWP if the coach does it on purpose ... which was the point of the post.

[woolnojg]

mc got it right. Not a TWP as a coach. Directed play to gain the advantage after the other coach starts messing around. Plunk my batter, throw wild pitches, walk the batter. Just cause VT screwed up doesn't mean NH can't play the game to win within the (screwed up) LL MPR.