Slide or avoid Contact

[bluezebra]

"The catcher, in FED, has the right to field the ball "when a play is immenant", correct?"

"Any player has the right to make a play on the a throw or batted ball when a play is imminant."

**Even when a play is IMMINENT.

"You can't tell afielder that they have to let a ground ball go through the infield because a baserunner was running in the baseline at the same time the ball was there."

**This has nothing to do with the question. Totally irrelevant.

Bob

[DG]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

I know of no such ruling for Little League Baseball for such an allowance. (In Fed and ASA Softball there is no such allowance.) You cannot block without the ball period.

Joe

Does LL Baseball interpret their OBR rules differently than MLB, or not at all? The catcher is not blocking the plate if he has to move up the line to catch a wide throw.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

I know of no such ruling for Little League Baseball for such an allowance. (In Fed and ASA Softball there is no such allowance.) You cannot block without the ball period.

Joe

Little League has adopted the NCAA version of obstruction, and it has also adopted the NCAA interpretation that allows a fielder to come into the runner's path to field a throw. The LL interp was published in one of its quarterly Fair Ball newsletters.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

Little League has adopted the NCAA version of obstruction, and it has also adopted the NCAA interpretation that allows a fielder to come into the runner's path to field a throw. The LL interp was published in one of its quarterly Fair Ball newsletters.

I am glad to hear it.

If you are able to find the exact publication date, that would be very helpful.

Thanks!

Joe

[aceholleran]

Most of the time in these sitches, I've got a "nuttin', honey."

When offensive coaches scream for OBS, I say, "Why didn't your runner simply run to the base? The fielder never would have caught the ball!"

To the defense, "There is no slide/avoid rule here. Fielder didn't have the ball waiting to make the tag." (LL rule)

Ace

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by aceholleran

Most of the time in these sitches, I've got a "nuttin', honey."

When offensive coaches scream for OBS, I say, "Why didn't your runner simply run to the base? The fielder never would have caught the ball!"

To the defense, "There is no slide/avoid rule here. Fielder didn't have the ball waiting to make the tag." (LL rule)

Ace

Malicious Contact supercedes Obstruction in games where there is a "slide or avoid" style rule. Whether or not the fielder is blocking the base without the ball, the runners are not allowed to barrel over them. They have to be making a legitimate effort to reach the base for contact to be allowed. If they are trying to knock the fielder down, they will be ejected.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Malicious Contact supercedes Obstruction in games where there is a "slide or avoid" style rule.

Not in a NCAA game. Both obstruction and the malicious crash are penalized.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by LDUB

Not in a NCAA game. Both obstruction and the malicious crash are penalized.

Touche.....

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Malicious Contact supercedes Obstruction in games where there is a "slide or avoid" style rule. Whether or not the fielder is blocking the base without the ball, the runners are not allowed to barrel over them. They have to be making a legitimate effort to reach the base for contact to be allowed. If they are trying to knock the fielder down, they will be ejected.

I've seen some leagues with a rule that explicitly says "malicioius contact supercedes obstruction," in which case this *******ized rule would allow an obstructed runner to be called out for malicious contact. I do not think it is correct, however, to apply this statement to any league with a "slide or avoid style rule." Little League, for example, has what many would call a "slide or avoid style rule," but they do not have any interpretation that says malicous contact supercedes obstruction. In fact, LL's slide or avoid rule is worded in such a way that there could never be a violation of the rule on an obstructed runner. There certainly could, however, be "malicious contact" by an obstructed runner, and the proper ruling would be to eject the runner for his unsportsmanlike conduct, and then place his substitute on the base he would have reached had the obstruction not occurred.

In other words, penalize the malicious contact, and penalize the obstruction. No superceding going on.

[aceholleran]

I have never effected a "malicious contact" call/EJ in over 1,000 games umpired. Every collision I have seen was either legal (in my post-grad summer league work, MLB rules) or simply a train wreck.

I once called a runner out for using his arms to interfere with F2's apply of a tag. Off. coach wanted MC, but I flat didn't see the reason for an EJ.

My pernt is that, especially with young 'uns, elders view any collision as some sort of mortal sin. All I've seen are venial ones.

Ace

[Dave Hensley]

I don't recall ever seeing a malicious hit at any age less than 15, but I usually get one or two a year at the teenage/high school level.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

I don't recall ever seeing a malicious hit at any age less than 15, but I usually get one or two a year at the teenage/high school level.

I have seen a few at younger ages, but none as memorable as having to eject Marcus Giles in a Pony League game for doing a Pete Rose vs. Ray Fosse impersonation. He went airborne and clocked this catcher, dislodging the ball and knocking the catcher on his butt. I called, "Safe, Time, you're gone, Marcus. You know you can't do that."

He hasn't changed a bit.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

I don't recall ever seeing a malicious hit at any age less than 15, but I usually get one or two a year at the teenage/high school level.

I could send you some tapes, 2 events, 2 different years, players age 10 and 11. I submitted these tapes to Babe Ruth baseball and requested the rules be changed (Babe Ruth did not recognize MC at the time), and they were about 2 years later. I hope my tapes helped.

The catcher was my son in both cases. The first one was in a 10 year old all star tournament and he was making his 2nd start ever at catcher (there is a story for that also) so clearly this was his first experience with being crashed. He went to the ground still holding the ball in his glove, jumped up removed the ball from his glove with his right hand and dropped it on the other boy's chest who was still laying on the ground, without saying a word. A catcher was born that day.

[Rcichon]

Originally Posted by PWL

He does this in a game I'm coaching, he earns a seat by me for the rest of the game.

If I'm the home plate umpire, he earns a trip to wherever they send ejected players in this league.

Whom would you eject, PWL?
F2? R3?

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

I don't recall ever seeing a malicious hit at any age less than 15, but I usually get one or two a year at the teenage/high school level.

FED: I had an absolutely brutal hit in a U14 travel league game this year. The catcher was standing there waiting for the runner and not prepared to have a felonious assault on his person. It was BAD. Somehow, the catcher was not injured. I called Time and ejected the kid and looked at the 3rd base coach-we both reaized that he had 9 players that day and this double header was ending in the 1st inning of game two.(always get your cash BEFORE the first pitch:-)

I had a malicious contact in the LL Juniors District on a stolen base attempt.

Joe