National Federation rule chances for 2007

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by SAump

The Japanese love to play our game. Perhaps we can "take away" something from their game. Their "nankyu baseballs are renowned in Japan for their safety and durability." 70 years of baseball tested. Changing the baseball and leaving everything else alone is so much cheaper. The wood bats do not prevent death. Helmets are much more costly. If NFHS knew about this baseball, I feel they would also find this alternative more acceptable than restrictive bat and helmet laws.

Here is some of the dish. http://www.kenkobaseball.com/about.html

Here is some more written in Japanese. http://www.jsbb.or.jp/

Wood bats would decrease the speed that the ball comes off the bat, hence increasing reaction times for players, hence keeping them safer.

So how are wood bats not safer? I like the other poster's analogy of Rifle vs BB gun.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Wood bats would decrease the speed that the ball comes off the bat, hence increasing reaction times for players, hence keeping them safer.

I thought BESR made the speed of the ball coming off non wood bats equal to the speed of a ball of a wooden bat.

"The best major league bat yielded a BESR of 0.728, which the NCAA then set to be the maximum allowed value."

http://www.npl.uiuc.edu/~a-nathan/po...WhitePaper.pdf

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by LDUB

I thought BESR made the speed of the ball coming off non wood bats equal to the speed of a ball of a wooden bat.

"The best major league bat yielded a BESR of 0.728, which the NCAA then set to be the maximum allowed value."

http://www.npl.uiuc.edu/~a-nathan/po...WhitePaper.pdf

I think (my opinion only) that while the maximum speed might be (approximately) the same, the area on the bat that can produce that speed is much larger on an aluminum bat than on the wood bat. So, more balls come off the bat at / near the maximum speed on an aluminum bat, and there are more balls that cause / nearly cause severe injuries.

[DG]

It appears from the article that the testing was done with a pitch speed of 70mph and bat speed of 66 mph. Don't know about the bat speed estimate but many HS and college pitchers are throwing fastballs at greater than 70 mph and the difference could be signficant. Having worked spring HS and college games with aluminum and college summer leagues with wood, I can say from observation that there is signficant difference. BESR does not produce an aluminum bat that approximates wood, it just sets an upper limit standard for aluminum, that may come close as long as pitchers will throw 70 mph or less.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by DG

It appears from the article that the testing was done with a pitch speed of 70mph and bat speed of 66 mph. Don't know about the bat speed estimate but many HS and college pitchers are throwing fastballs at greater than 70 mph and the difference could be signficant. Having worked spring HS and college games with aluminum and college summer leagues with wood, I can say from observation that there is signficant difference. BESR does not produce an aluminum bat that approximates wood, it just sets an upper limit standard for aluminum, that may come close as long as pitchers will throw 70 mph or less.

That is wrong, at all speeds the exit speed of a BESR non wood bat would be the same as a wood bat. The non wood bat may have a larger area that will produce maximum exit velocity, but it will not be faster than a wood bat with an equal BESR.

V(ball exit) = Vbat( BESR + .5 ) + Vball( BESR -.5)

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by LDUB

That is wrong, at all speeds the exit speed of a BESR non wood bat would be the same as a wood bat. The non wood bat may have a larger area that will produce maximum exit velocity, but it will not be faster than a wood bat with an equal BESR.

V(ball exit) = Vbat( BESR + .5 ) + Vball( BESR -.5)

But, Vbat increases when you use aluminum, its lighter

[umpduck11]

Originally Posted by LDUB

That is wrong, at all speeds the exit speed of a BESR non wood bat would be the same as a wood bat. The non wood bat may have a larger area that will produce maximum exit velocity, but it will not be faster than a wood bat with an equal BESR.

V(ball exit) = Vbat( BESR + .5 ) + Vball( BESR -.5)

One thing that worries me is, if I'm not mistaken, the NFHS does not
verify or certify the BESR of bats. They simply take the word of the manufacturer. Who's to know if the testing done on the bats is accurate?
Also, wasn't there a former employee (engineer?) of one of the bat
companies that claimed that the BESR is BS ?

[Pete in AZ]

I think Windy posted about a company that offers to re-paint bats so they look like the real thing. Imagine a -8 bat in the hands of a college kid or good HS hitter.

[tjones1]

Well, once the helmets for the defensive are completely in, we will probably see foam padding placed in the outfield so no one gets hurt when they make a diving attempt.

Give it time....... before too long, none of us will be on the field anymore. Instead, the games will be loaded onto a PlayStation 1000 so that Little Timmy has the chance of hitting a home run too.

We can only hope it stops somewhere, but the chances are they won't.

[mcrowder]

BESR is only an accurate comparison of wood to metal if the weight of the bat is the same. Metal bats are lighter, in general, and can be swung faster, so even though the BESR might be identical between two bats, the speed (which is multiplied by the BESR) of the bat is higher. There is no question that the ball can be hit with greater velocity by an aluminum bat than a wood one.

[briancurtin]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I think (my opinion only) that while the maximum speed might be (approximately) the same, the area on the bat that can produce that speed is much larger on an aluminum bat than on the wood bat. So, more balls come off the bat at / near the maximum speed on an aluminum bat, and there are more balls that cause / nearly cause severe injuries.

i totally agree with this. with an aluminum bat, nearly half of the bat is the sweet spot on a lot of models, producing that maximum speed much more often.

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by briancurtin

i totally agree with this. with an aluminum bat, nearly half of the bat is the sweet spot on a lot of models, producing that maximum speed much more often.

And you can swing them faster

[SAump]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Wood bats would decrease the speed that the ball comes off the bat, hence increasing reaction times for players, hence keeping them safer.

So how are wood bats not safer? I like the other poster's analogy of Rifle vs BB gun.

It was a good analogy, but think of a weapons safety timeline as if one exists. Start a child off with a toy gun, switch to the dart gun, add BBs, exchange for the 22 rifle, then move up to the 410 or 20 gauge, and finally the babe is ready for anything. Right? Life is good as you move up in the world. However, kids these days start with a NINTENDO rapid-fire blaster. Without any previous instruction, background check, responsibility or risk training; these young men are then allowed to own semi-automatic weapons. We live in a very dangerous world and it has very little to do with baseball.

Think of the evolution of weapons timeline. Fire off a wooden musket from the early 1800, then fire off a cold steel revolver from the early 1900, and finally fire a hard plastic resin 9-mm pistol a century later. Also look at another sport, tennis. Their racquets follow the same timeline of wood, steel and plastic resin polymers. The serves and volleys now reach speeds of 145 mph. I don't see anyone in the tennis circles demanding a reduction in serving velocity. I am sure plastic resins are cheaper and last forever. Now imagine the dangers of plastic resin polymer bat designs. There wouldn't be a need for steroids. We can make bats out of ceramic, if need be. However, the risks will always remain until we decide to redesign the ball.

[UMP25]

I don't know about the rest of the guys here, but I'd much prefer to get hit by a tennis ball at 145 mph than a baseball at 95 mph.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by SAump

Also look at another sport, tennis. Their racquets follow the same timeline of wood, steel and plastic resin polymers. The serves and volleys now reach speeds of 145 mph. I don't see anyone in the tennis circles demanding a reduction in serving velocity.

Can tennis balls rise when served at that speed?

Just wondering.....