No Brainer?

[BigUmp56]

I watched one of our more experienced umpires not react to a situation today and was kind of shocked. Bottom of the 7th inning home team down 6 runs. 2 outs. Batter strikes out swinging. He slings his bat all the way to the backstop in disgust and flings his helmet from the batters box all the way back to the dugout steps. I was in A position and was just waiting to see the big finger come out. He didn't say a word to this player.


After the game I asked him why he didn't run the player and he said it was too damn hot and he didn't have the energy to do it. The he said that since the team probably wouldn't advance out of pool play in the seniors tournament, this was more than likely their last game of the season anyway. In my mind it was a complete no brainer ejection. I would have ejected him just on principle even if I was sure it was his last game ever!


Tim.

[DG]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

After the game I asked him why he didn't run the player and he said it was too damn hot and he didn't have the energy to do it.

I worked two yesterday, the first on bases, 2.5 hours, the second behind the plate, 10 innings, 3.5 hours. Thankfully the late game was under lights from the 4th inning and the temps were down under 90, from 95 for the first game. While I was tired when it ended, very tired, I am never too tired to toss somebody.

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I watched one of our more experienced umpires not react to a situation today and was kind of shocked. Bottom of the 7th inning home team down 6 runs. 2 outs. Batter strikes out swinging. He slings his bat all the way to the backstop in disgust and flings his helmet from the batters box all the way back to the dugout steps. I was in A position and was just waiting to see the big finger come out. He didn't say a word to this player.


After the game I asked him why he didn't run the player and he said it was too damn hot and he didn't have the energy to do it. The he said that since the team probably wouldn't advance out of pool play in the seniors tournament, this was more than likely their last game of the season anyway. In my mind it was a complete no brainer ejection. I would have ejected him just on principle even if I was sure it was his last game ever!


Tim.

Why didn't you eject him?

[waltjp]

What happens when the next batter strikes out to end the game and his thrown bat hits and injures someone?

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by Blue37

Why didn't you eject him?

If the BU sees the bat/helmet throwing, I would say pause, read and react

If your partner did nothing, give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he did not see it. YOU saw it so give him the heave ho!*

Joe



*The Heave Ho will hence forth be known as the "Bruce Dreckman".

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Blue37

Why didn't you eject him?

Just curious here ... what rule did this fellow break that requires an ejection? PU's explanation of a reason for not tossing sucks... but seriously, is throwing the bat or helmet in anger at HIMSELF an automatic ejection?

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Blue37

Why didn't you eject him?

I'm not one to eat my partners lunch. This happened right in front of him and I was over 100' feet away. There was no doubt that he saw it, and he confirmed as much after the game.


Tim.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Just curious here ... what rule did this fellow break that requires an ejection? PU's explanation of a reason for not tossing sucks... but seriously, is throwing the bat or helmet in anger at HIMSELF an automatic ejection?

It sure should be, Mike.


Tim.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Just curious here ... what rule did this fellow break that requires an ejection? PU's explanation of a reason for not tossing sucks... but seriously, is throwing the bat or helmet in anger at HIMSELF an automatic ejection?

What if he was disgusted with the umpire's call of strike 2 that put him in a hole, forcing him to protect the plate on strike 3? Maybe he wasn't angry with himself after all.

The rules in FED calls for ejection for any throwing of equipment in disgust, whether at himself or the umpire's call.

As far as OBR goes, the interpretation from the MLBUM includes ejection as one of the penalties for flagrant throwing of equipment, if in disgust with an umpire's call.

If this was in a youth ball game, I would eject him just for safety reasons, since his actions were potentially dangerous.

[C'monBlue]

I understand your partner's rationale for the decision. If that was the only wrinkle in an otherwise peaceful day, then I'm already in the parking lot by the time the bat hits the ground. There's no reason to find trouble where there isn't any. On the other hand, if the game has been filled with rat-induced tension or if the player himself seems like he needs an attitude adjustment, then he's gone. It seems like a HTBT situation. Judging by what I read, I wouldn't be so quick to pull out the big finger--especially when ejections require paperwork. Unless the paper has green presidents on it, I'm not interested.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

It sure should be, Mike.

Maybe it should be, but it's not, not by rule.

Lacking a ruleset in the OP, I assumed OBR, and it's not automatic. If it was a FED game and my partner ignored it, yeah - I guess I'd have to go ahead and toss him - but if it's OBR, there's no way I'm guessing an ejection from 100 feet away if my partner, who was right there, didn't toss him.

(OTOH - if I'm PU, I'm probably tossing him anyway barring something extremely odd.)

I just don't see this as an automatic penalty that should be enforced from many miles away.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

What if he was disgusted with the umpire's call of strike 2 that put him in a hole, forcing him to protect the plate on strike 3? Maybe he wasn't angry with himself after all.

Maybe maybe maybe, what if, what if, what if... If I'm 100 feet away and my partner's right there, I'm not playing maybe what if and tossing him. And I think that if you are, you are wrong in doing so (even if it turns out in retrospect that your partner was just being lazy and didn't have a valid reason for not tossing him).

in FED calls for ejection for any throwing of equipment in disgust, whether at himself or the umpire's call.

Valid point - but he didn't say which set. I assumed OBR.

As far as OBR goes, the interpretation from the MLBUM includes ejection as one of the penalties for flagrant throwing of equipment, if in disgust with an umpire's call.

Yes, but from 100 feet away I can't see making that leap. In fact, I'd assume it was in disgust at missing the ball, not some previous umpire-related disgust.

If this was in a youth ball game, I would eject him just for safety reasons, since his actions were potentially dangerous.

Me too - but probably not as BU.

[SanDiegoSteve]

mcrowder, where did I say the BU should throw the guy? I was talking about the PU doing the tossing. I'm not playing what-if either. That very well may have been the case that he was mad at the umpire. They usually are, even when the umpire had nothing to do with them striking out. I'm just saying we don't know the mind of the batter, and why he was disgusted.

The only way I'm ejecting him from 100 feet away is if I'm certain that the PU did not see the offense, like the PU ringing up strike 3 turning away from the batter. I have documented this very situation (slinging the bat at the dugout) happening to me, in a previous post. Only it was the first batter of the game, the team was down to 8 players with the ejection, and we got to go home early. Very Early.

[Uncle George]

[QUOTE=BigUmp56]

After the game I asked him why he didn't run the player and he said it was too damn hot and he didn't have the energy to do it.

With this info from the poster, it apparently comfirms that the PU was in fact, aware to the actions of the batter. With this information, I find the PU remarks to his partner pretty lame. Without us knowing which league rules were being used, it makes it harder for us to rendere the correct decision.

Me and I'm working the bases and without knowing the real reason the kids tossed his equipment, you've got a first base coach, why not mention it to him what you saw and ask him to discuss the situation with the batter. If he declines, as the kid comes out onto the field, make your way casually to him and discuss it with him, short and sweet.

It's what we don't know that gets us into trouble!

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

mcrowder, where did I say the BU should throw the guy?

Steve, I was responding to blue's question asking OP why he (as BU) didn't eject him. Implying that this was an automatic thing, when in OBR it's not.