No Brainer?

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Steve, I was responding to blue's question asking OP why he (as BU) didn't eject him. Implying that this was an automatic thing, when in OBR it's not.

We have fellow umpires aguring about a no-brainer ejection. This is a total sportsmanship issue, this person must be tossed. It is our job to enforce all sportmanship issues and hold the player accoutable. Mcrowder, stop being a rule book tommy and do the right thing, grow some balls and toss the kid. What message are we sending if there are other kids in the stands watching this young man toss his helmet and bat and the umpires don't do anything about it, let's noy be our own worst enemies!

[mcrowder]

Ronref, you are completely out of line.

Let me restate my position, since you obviously didn't understand me the first time.

If I was PU in this sitch, I guarantee I toss the kid - FED, OBR, LL, Dixie, NIAI, NCAA, ASA, USSSA, whatever alphabet soup you choose, I toss the kid. I suppose there is some 1 in a thousand situation (outside of FED, obviously), where I would not, but I cannot think of what the extenuating circumstance might be right now.

My issue was with the admonition on the OP, who was the BASE umpire. People were asking him why HE didn't toss the batter, from 100 feet away, when PU, right on the spot, failed to do so. I point out that it is NOT an automatic ejection except in FED, and this is not BU's ejection to poach, so to speak, in other jurisdictions. Since it's not automatic, and PU did not eject, I'm assuming until proven differently that PU had reason not to eject. (I also grant that in retrospect, this particular PU was being lazy - not a good reason not to eject - but BU didn't know that until later). I'm not about to step all over my partner in a sitch like this where such an ejection is not automatic and he made (supposedly) the conscious decision not to toss him.

[waltjp]

Wholeheartedly agree with Mcrowder here. My partner and I are going to have some real problems if he is across the diamond and dumps someone on a play that I am covering. You're not my daddy, I don't need you looking over my shoulder.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Wholeheartedly agree with Mcrowder here. My partner and I are going to have some real problems if he is across the diamond and dumps someone on a play that I am covering. You're not my daddy, I don't need you looking over my shoulder.

A good principle but not an absolute.

How far do you take this?

If the pitcher punches a runner in the face after covering home on a passed ball and the home plate ump does not eject?

I would risk the wrath of my partner on this one. It is a very dangerous situation for a kid to be throwing bats and helmets around. I have seen two injuries that required ambulances because of this kind of behavior. No way am I going to see that and let it go. Can anyone think of any reason other than laziness or ignorance that would cause the PU NOT to eject?

Joe

[BigUmp56]

Sorry, JW. I just don't see a time where I would run all the way down the line to eject a player who committed an unsportsmanlike act right in front of my partner, unless I was working with a rookie. If he had his back to the incident, then sure, I would issue the ejection. Along those lines I would be pretty pissed if my partner came running out from behind the plate to eject a runner for MC at second base if it was my call to make.


There wasn't a good reason for him not to eject this idiot, but that still doesn't make it my call.


Tim.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Sorry, JW. I just don't see a time where I would run all the way down the line to eject a player who committed an unsportsmanlike act right in front of my partner, unless I was working with a rookie. If he had his back to the incident, then sure, I would issue the ejection. Along those lines I would be pretty pissed if my partner came running out from behind the plate to eject a runner for MC at second base if it was my call to make.


There wasn't a good reason for him not to eject this idiot, but that still doesn't make it my call.


Tim.

If he hits my partner with a bat and my partner is unconscious, can I eject him then?

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

If he hits my partner with a bat and my partner is unconscious, can I eject him then?

No, but you are entitled under rule 16.4 to hit him with the bat in retaliation.


Tim.

[gsf23]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

A good principle but not an absolute.

How far do you take this?

If the pitcher punches a runner in the face after covering home on a passed ball and the home plate ump does not eject?

I would risk the wrath of my partner on this one. It is a very dangerous situation for a kid to be throwing bats and helmets around. I have seen two injuries that required ambulances because of this kind of behavior. No way am I going to see that and let it go. Can anyone think of any reason other than laziness or ignorance that would cause the PU NOT to eject?

Joe

In a situation like this, after the play is over I would probably conference with my partner and ask him if he did in fact see a punch. Or in the original situation, before leaving the field ask him what's going on and if he couldn't give me something better than the I don't want to deal with it excuse, I'd probably say fine then I'll deal with it. I just don't think you can let that kind of behavior go without punishment. If my partner doesn't like that, well too bad, I gave him the chance to do it himself and I am positive my assignor and the rest of the guys in my association would back me on it.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by gsf23

In a situation like this, after the play is over I would probably conference with my partner and ask him if he did in fact see a punch. Or in the original situation, before leaving the field ask him what's going on and if he couldn't give me something better than the I don't want to deal with it excuse, I'd probably say fine then I'll deal with it. I just don't think you can let that kind of behavior go without punishment. If my partner doesn't like that, well too bad, I gave him the chance to do it himself and I am positive my assignor and the rest of the guys in my association would back me on it.

Well said gsf.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Sorry, JW. I just don't see a time where I would run all the way down the line to eject a player.

You don't have to run down the line. Just yell really loud from where you are. Everyone will hear you. It sure worked for Angel Hernandez yesterday!

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

If he had his back to the incident, then sure, I would issue the ejection.

Absolutely!

[RPatrino]

Unless I mis-read the original post, the actions of this player occured AFTER the last out of the game?? Maybe that affected the PU's decision to just "get out of dodge" while he had the chance?

I don't agree with not ejecting this player if the game is still in progress, but I might agree to let it go if it is the last out of the game.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

Unless I mis-read the original post, the actions of this player occured AFTER the last out of the game?? Maybe that affected the PU's decision to just "get out of dodge" while he had the chance?

I don't agree with not ejecting this player if the game is still in progress, but I might agree to let it go if it is the last out of the game.

I only disagree with you in that it encourages this sort of behavior in future games. If you don't eject in this situation, they will think it's okay to do it after every game. It could lead to more problems if they think they can get away with anything post-game.

[RPatrino]

You know Steve I agree with you. My mind was not totally made up on this one, that's why I said I "might" let it go if it occured after the last out of the game. Upon further review, I would have ejected this player, in this situation, because this is both a sportsmanship and safety issue.

I have ejected coach's after the game was over for unacceptable behavior, so why make an exception in this case??

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

A good principle but not an absolute.

How far do you take this?

If the pitcher punches a runner in the face after covering home on a passed ball and the home plate ump does not eject?

I would risk the wrath of my partner on this one. It is a very dangerous situation for a kid to be throwing bats and helmets around. I have seen two injuries that required ambulances because of this kind of behavior. No way am I going to see that and let it go. Can anyone think of any reason other than laziness or ignorance that would cause the PU NOT to eject?

Joe

Let's try to keep this based in reality. Trust me, if someone throws a punch in front of me I'll have him tossed before you could flinch.

And I'm not making an arguement that a player who throws his equipment should not be tossed. But unless you're standing there with me you have no idea of what just happened or what was said. I may have already dumped him for saying something to me and his throwing of the helmet could be in reaction to that. Are you now going to come and throw him out a second time?

If you have a question about what just transpired come and talk to me. If you feel I missed something tell me and we'll straighten it out.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

Unless I mis-read the original post, the actions of this player occured AFTER the last out of the game?? Maybe that affected the PU's decision to just "get out of dodge" while he had the chance?

I don't agree with not ejecting this player if the game is still in progress, but I might agree to let it go if it is the last out of the game.

Part of me feels like it's MORE important to toss him (assuming I'm PU) if he does it at the end. Players can't feel like the second the game is over all decorum is moot and they are free to do whatever they want.