when in doubt call...foul?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Blue37

I sometimes encounter fields with no line past first or third base base, and also see fields with a line on the grass past first and third, but no line on the dirt between the bases and the grass. In either situation, we pregame it so the plate ump has fair/foul responsibility for balls hitting in those areas. He can establish a frame of reference by looking at the base and home. The field ump has no such frame of reference.

On most fields, and I'll admit there are exceptions, BU can line up the foul pole with a tree or a window, or a light pole, .... beyond the field. The time to set the reference is before the game starts. By using this, BU can get a pretty good look at the ball.

On the default -- if the batter "beat" the pitcher (that is, pulled the ball hard), I rule it fair. Otherwise, I rule it foul.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

On most fields, and I'll admit there are exceptions, BU can line up the foul pole with a tree or a window, or a light pole, .... beyond the field. The time to set the reference is before the game starts. By using this, BU can get a pretty good look at the ball.

On the default -- if the batter "beat" the pitcher (that is, pulled the ball hard), I rule it fair. Otherwise, I rule it foul.

This is #2 in my "Summer ball mechanics" manual (self-authored, but regrettably unavailable to the masses just yet). On fields that haven't been lined, BU comes in and pivots on that play, and PU takes the catch/no catch and fair/foul call. PU has 1B and the foul pole to use as reference. Bob's suggestion proves that he's never umpired in Texas, where typically the "object" behind the baseball field is the high school football practice field, and beyond that, the lone prairie.

[pdxblue]

I don't understand "too close to call"! If you are paying attention, and tracking the ball on the pitch, the pitch is either a strike, or a ball. Simply, there is no such pitch that is "too close to call".

Having blown my fair share of calls, I know for certain that the reason I blow calls is because I am not giving 100% attention to what is happening right in front of me. Also, I may not have anticipated what "could" happen, so when something unexpected happened, I was surprised. Again, simply my fault.

So, I believe you can move about 99% of those "too close to call" calls to "I seen that quite well" simply by anticipating would "could" happen and be prepared for anything. You will sell your close calls much better when you react with authority and confidence!

A little something I share with newer umpires about bangers at first base. I was taught to listen for the ball to hit the glove, and watch the foot hit the bag. If you see something before you hear it, SAFE! If you hear something before you hear it, OUT! But not always out!!! Consider this:

Light travels at 180,000 MPH. Sound travels approximately 2000 MPH. On those "too close to call" bangers at first where you really thing you seen and heard something at the same time, it is quite obvious that what you heard happened BEFORE what you seen, because sound travels MUCH slower than light does.

Try explaining that to a coach that is arguing a banger at first. I did once and the coach smiled at me and turned and walked away.

But really, if you are going to have a "philosophy" about close plays, don't make it "close pitches are strikes, etc...", make it "I will anticipate with might happen and will give my undivided attention to the play".

Bare down blue!

[piaa_ump]

In summer ball I too have my share of those ballfields that in my native state would most likely be called cow pastures.......and in the case of a field with no fences, no foul poles and no lines past the bases, they get what I call...... ( I work 2 of those)

I make my best judgment with what information I have at hand and thats it. If they want me to be less subjective, they can put in a fence and foul poul and line the field.....

best of luck....

Stan

[jxt127]

Originally Posted by pdxblue

Bare down blue!

I've had a game with a streaker before but I won't be doing it anytime soon.

[pdxblue]

Originally Posted by jxt127

I've had a game with a streaker before but I won't be doing it anytime soon.

Oops....

I'll let the spelin' airor stand just because.

[johnnyg08]

Yep, on a field with no foul/fair lines...you have to make your best guess...but give the responsibility to the PU though. Also, in situations like this I always say in the pregame..."since there aren't any lines, I'm going to use my best judgement to make a call. this, like any other judgement call today will not be argued." I've NEVER had a problem after that with any close ones...any reasonable person can appreciate and understand that without a line, it's a good guess at best. Good luck to you.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by pdxblue

I don't understand "too close to call"! If you are paying attention, and tracking the ball on the pitch, the pitch is either a strike, or a ball. Simply, there is no such pitch that is "too close to call".

Having blown my fair share of calls, I know for certain that the reason I blow calls is because I am not giving 100% attention to what is happening right in front of me. Also, I may not have anticipated what "could" happen, so when something unexpected happened, I was surprised. Again, simply my fault.

So, I believe you can move about 99% of those "too close to call" calls to "I seen that quite well" simply by anticipating would "could" happen and be prepared for anything. You will sell your close calls much better when you react with authority and confidence!

A little something I share with newer umpires about bangers at first base. I was taught to listen for the ball to hit the glove, and watch the foot hit the bag. If you see something before you hear it, SAFE! If you hear something before you hear it, OUT! But not always out!!! Consider this:

Light travels at 180,000 MPH. Sound travels approximately 2000 MPH. On those "too close to call" bangers at first where you really thing you seen and heard something at the same time, it is quite obvious that what you heard happened BEFORE what you seen, because sound travels MUCH slower than light does.

Try explaining that to a coach that is arguing a banger at first. I did once and the coach smiled at me and turned and walked away.

But really, if you are going to have a "philosophy" about close plays, don't make it "close pitches are strikes, etc...", make it "I will anticipate with might happen and will give my undivided attention to the play".

Bare down blue!

Uhhh, yeah that's nice, but we were talking about fair/foul calls where there are no lines drawn. Who was talking about close pitches or bangers?

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Uhhh, yeah that's nice, but we were talking about fair/foul calls where there are no lines drawn. Who was talking about close pitches or bangers?

The OP was discussing the "too close to call philosophy", Steve.



Tim.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Oh, okay. It sure seemed like a long way to go to get the point. It must have been the speed of light reference.

[ToGreySt]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Uhhh, yeah that's nice, but we were talking about fair/foul calls where there are no lines drawn. Who was talking about close pitches or bangers?

would you all agree that a close pitch that makes you think twice should NOT be called a strike then?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by ToGreySt

would you all agree that a close pitch that makes you think twice should NOT be called a strike then?

All pitches make me think twice. It's called timing.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

All pitches make me think twice. It's called timing.

ha HA! *zing*

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

All pitches make me think twice. It's called timing.

No. Timing is defined as "the proper use of the eyes." With good timing, "hesitation", or "thinking twice" is not necessary.

[AlabamaBlue]

Originally Posted by pdxblue

Light travels at 180,000 MPH. Sound travels approximately 2000 MPH.

Do you just make stuff up? Light travels at 186,000 miles per SECOND, sound at around 760mph depending on the atmosphere. So if you're standing 30 feet away from the bag, the light will reach you in approximately 0.00000003 seconds, and the sound will reach you in 0.0004 seconds. Do you really think you can differentiate that small of a difference? If the ball hits the glove at the exact same time the foot hits the bag, you are not going to be able to hear a difference of 4 TEN THOUSANDTHS of a second. Unless you're superman.