when in doubt call...foul?

[ToGreySt]

had a Senior Babe Ruth game this week at an absolutely awful field, no foul lines beyond the bases and what lines were painted weren't much to speak of. Im on the bases and the batter hits a shot down the right field line while I'm in A. it's right over my head so I turn and start running out, but I get out there and I realize that I might not be able to tell without a reference, I turn a round and find the base and try to straddle it and line up with the foul pole. the ball, of course, comes down right on the line. I call foul.

During my apprentice program that my high school association put together, the instructors have talked about what to do when you're not 100% certain. for example, if a pitch is close enough to make you stop and think, it should be called a strike. same goes for a play on the bases, if it's too close to call it's an out. whether it's the right philosophy or not it got me though my first few games very well. My question is, do you give the same benefit of the doubt to the offence or the defense here? should the "when in doubt call" be fair or foul

just curious if this is a situation anybody else has encountered.

Joe

[ToGreySt]

Originally Posted by GarthB

The "line" is fair.

I guess what I should have said was it came down where it could have been either, with no line I had no real idea where it was

Joe

[nickrego]

I agree with all your other "Too Close To Tell" philosophies, but for a Foul Ball, if it's too close to call, I lean to wards FAIR.

[SanDiegoSteve]

In a whole lot more games than I would like, there are no foul lines past the infield dirt. In some HS summer games, there are no foul lines whatsoever. In these situations, it's whatever you call it, and if they complain, tell 'em to line the field next time.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by nickrego

I agree with all your other "Too Close To Tell" philosophies, but for a Foul Ball, if it's too close to call, I lean to wards FAIR.

It depends on why the umpire missed seeing the call. If he was blocked out somehow, and the teams aren't making a clear call for him, the default should be foul. If he is merely working a crap field, he doesn't need a default, he just calls what he has. As SDS said, if they don't like the calls, they can line the field next time.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by ToGreySt

had a Senior Babe Ruth game this week at an absolutely awful field, no foul lines beyond the bases and what lines were painted weren't much to speak of. Im on the bases and the batter hits a shot down the right field line while I'm in A. it's right over my head so I turn and start running out, but I get out there and I realize that I might not be able to tell without a reference, I turn a round and find the base and try to straddle it and line up with the foul pole. the ball, of course, comes down right on the line. I call foul.

SNIPPED

Joe

If they don't bother to put down the lines, you just do the best that you can. After that, don't beat yourself up!

[ctblu40]

I'm with nick on this one, when in doubt, call it fair. My theory is that if we're giving the pitcher the benifit of the doubt on close pitches, give the batter the benifit on fuzzy fair/foul calls.

[Blue37]

I sometimes encounter fields with no line past first or third base base, and also see fields with a line on the grass past first and third, but no line on the dirt between the bases and the grass. In either situation, we pregame it so the plate ump has fair/foul responsibility for balls hitting in those areas. He can establish a frame of reference by looking at the base and home. The field ump has no such frame of reference.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Blue37

I sometimes encounter fields with no line past first or third base base, and also see fields with a line on the grass past first and third, but no line on the dirt between the bases and the grass. In either situation, we pregame it so the plate ump has fair/foul responsibility for balls hitting in those areas. He can establish a frame of reference by looking at the base and home. The field ump has no such frame of reference.

On most fields, and I'll admit there are exceptions, BU can line up the foul pole with a tree or a window, or a light pole, .... beyond the field. The time to set the reference is before the game starts. By using this, BU can get a pretty good look at the ball.

On the default -- if the batter "beat" the pitcher (that is, pulled the ball hard), I rule it fair. Otherwise, I rule it foul.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

On most fields, and I'll admit there are exceptions, BU can line up the foul pole with a tree or a window, or a light pole, .... beyond the field. The time to set the reference is before the game starts. By using this, BU can get a pretty good look at the ball.

On the default -- if the batter "beat" the pitcher (that is, pulled the ball hard), I rule it fair. Otherwise, I rule it foul.

This is #2 in my "Summer ball mechanics" manual (self-authored, but regrettably unavailable to the masses just yet). On fields that haven't been lined, BU comes in and pivots on that play, and PU takes the catch/no catch and fair/foul call. PU has 1B and the foul pole to use as reference. Bob's suggestion proves that he's never umpired in Texas, where typically the "object" behind the baseball field is the high school football practice field, and beyond that, the lone prairie.

[pdxblue]

I don't understand "too close to call"! If you are paying attention, and tracking the ball on the pitch, the pitch is either a strike, or a ball. Simply, there is no such pitch that is "too close to call".

Having blown my fair share of calls, I know for certain that the reason I blow calls is because I am not giving 100% attention to what is happening right in front of me. Also, I may not have anticipated what "could" happen, so when something unexpected happened, I was surprised. Again, simply my fault.

So, I believe you can move about 99% of those "too close to call" calls to "I seen that quite well" simply by anticipating would "could" happen and be prepared for anything. You will sell your close calls much better when you react with authority and confidence!

A little something I share with newer umpires about bangers at first base. I was taught to listen for the ball to hit the glove, and watch the foot hit the bag. If you see something before you hear it, SAFE! If you hear something before you hear it, OUT! But not always out!!! Consider this:

Light travels at 180,000 MPH. Sound travels approximately 2000 MPH. On those "too close to call" bangers at first where you really thing you seen and heard something at the same time, it is quite obvious that what you heard happened BEFORE what you seen, because sound travels MUCH slower than light does.

Try explaining that to a coach that is arguing a banger at first. I did once and the coach smiled at me and turned and walked away.

But really, if you are going to have a "philosophy" about close plays, don't make it "close pitches are strikes, etc...", make it "I will anticipate with might happen and will give my undivided attention to the play".

Bare down blue!

[piaa_ump]

In summer ball I too have my share of those ballfields that in my native state would most likely be called cow pastures.......and in the case of a field with no fences, no foul poles and no lines past the bases, they get what I call...... ( I work 2 of those)

I make my best judgment with what information I have at hand and thats it. If they want me to be less subjective, they can put in a fence and foul poul and line the field.....

best of luck....

Stan

[jxt127]

Originally Posted by pdxblue

Bare down blue!

I've had a game with a streaker before but I won't be doing it anytime soon.

[pdxblue]

Originally Posted by jxt127

I've had a game with a streaker before but I won't be doing it anytime soon.

Oops....

I'll let the spelin' airor stand just because.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by pdxblue

I don't understand "too close to call"! If you are paying attention, and tracking the ball on the pitch, the pitch is either a strike, or a ball. Simply, there is no such pitch that is "too close to call".

Having blown my fair share of calls, I know for certain that the reason I blow calls is because I am not giving 100% attention to what is happening right in front of me. Also, I may not have anticipated what "could" happen, so when something unexpected happened, I was surprised. Again, simply my fault.

So, I believe you can move about 99% of those "too close to call" calls to "I seen that quite well" simply by anticipating would "could" happen and be prepared for anything. You will sell your close calls much better when you react with authority and confidence!

A little something I share with newer umpires about bangers at first base. I was taught to listen for the ball to hit the glove, and watch the foot hit the bag. If you see something before you hear it, SAFE! If you hear something before you hear it, OUT! But not always out!!! Consider this:

Light travels at 180,000 MPH. Sound travels approximately 2000 MPH. On those "too close to call" bangers at first where you really thing you seen and heard something at the same time, it is quite obvious that what you heard happened BEFORE what you seen, because sound travels MUCH slower than light does.

Try explaining that to a coach that is arguing a banger at first. I did once and the coach smiled at me and turned and walked away.

But really, if you are going to have a "philosophy" about close plays, don't make it "close pitches are strikes, etc...", make it "I will anticipate with might happen and will give my undivided attention to the play".

Bare down blue!

Uhhh, yeah that's nice, but we were talking about fair/foul calls where there are no lines drawn. Who was talking about close pitches or bangers?