over rule partners call...

[NIump50]

Originally Posted by LDUB

In the original play F6 fielded the ball. That means that F5 would have taken at least a step or two to his left from his starting position. When R2 clears F5 he is not at all close to third base yet. So there is no way that anyone would think you are watching the touch of third base..

Or the ball could have been a shot one step to F6s right and F5 moved to the bag in case F6 came his way for the force. Therefore putting F5 directly at the bag.
I'm not going to write a book to cover all the possibilities. I think most people caught the implication when I said R2 clears F5. If you didn't understand, maybe you could have asked.
I also could not just say "once r2 touches third" because F5 could be sitting on the corner of the bag or playing in on the grass and could still obstruct after the touch. R2 clearing F5 seemed to be a general enough statement to get my point accross.

Originally Posted by LDUB

So you are saying that touches of third are more important than touches of home I guess you've never seen runners obviously miss bases on home runs.?.

I was speaking specifically to this situation, not a homerun where all the focus is on the BR.
When was the last time you had an uncontested runner miss the plate while a play was being made on another runner and had it appealed?

Originally Posted by LDUB

A smart team would have someone in the dugout assigned to watch the base touches, and someone else to watch the umpires to see if they are watching the base touches..

You're joking right?
In this sitch everyone in the defensive dugout and on the field will be watching 1st as the throw leaves F6s hand.

Originally Posted by LDUB

Your posts in this thred are crazy. No one knows what side you are on.

Summary of this thread:

**Thom Coste says to watch the base touches.
**You reply to Thom " I don't know that I agree".

I agreed at third, posted my exception for home.
I noted that seeing both was probable, but in this situation I would not forego watching first to see the foot hit home.

Originally Posted by LDUB

**pdxblue replies to you "I agree...the UIC NEEDS to be paying attention to the pulled foot rather than worrying about runners touching 3rd and home."
**mcrowder says pdxblue is wrong.

What has this got to do with me?
PDX mispoke if he is coupling his agreement with me to ignoring 3rd.

Originally Posted by LDUB

**You reply to mcrowder by saying "I'm sure the losing team, after being rung up on a blatantly missed tag at first, will take solace knowing R3 touched home plate even if it didn't count.".

That is a correct quote. IMO, Mcrowder was saying that PU had no business watching first, only responsibility was to watch R3 touch home.
This quote was in response to that sentiment.
I still stand by my posts.
In this situation, PU seeing the play at first trumps watching R3 touch home if doing both can't be done.

Originally Posted by LDUB

So far it is Thom and mcrowder who say to watch the touches, and you and pdxblue who say to watch the pulled foot..

Oversimplification, but with a wide brush is true.
Perhaps that is all you are capable of.

Originally Posted by LDUB

**pdxblue disagrees with mcrowder
**RPatrino says to watch base touches
**I disagree with you (remember pdxblue is on your side saying to not watch the touches)
**You claim that you are for watching the base touches, going against what pdxblue would do

Obviously no one on this forum can understand which side of this discussion you are on.

On the contrary, I think most understand which side I'm on.
They may not agree with my side, but I've been very clear.

In case you still don't know where I stand, here's the simple explanation.

Third base important
Home plate not as important as first.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by NIump50

In this situation, PU seeing the play at first trumps watching R3 touch home if doing both can't be done.

Couldn't disagree more.

[NIump50]

Originally Posted by LMan

Couldn't disagree more.

Like I said in a previous post, I know I'm wrong based on the mechanics.
IMO, the odds are so overwhelmingly in favor of something like this happening as compared to the uncontested runner missing home that it deserves some critical thought as to where the priorities are given.

No sarcasm intended here.
But are you and others in opposition to my viewpoint suggesting we blindly follow the letter of the law re: mechanics with no exceptions while also saying it's ok to fudge a bit on rules if it's the 'expected call'?

I'm not suggesting the mechanics be rewritten. I think it would be impossible to do so in a comprehensible fashion. What I am saying is there is room for exceptions.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by NIump50

But are you and others in opposition to my viewpoint suggesting we blindly follow the letter of the law re: mechanics with no exceptions while also saying it's ok to fudge a bit on rules if it's the 'expected call'?

Here's where I am on this: of course I agree that PU should be able to glance at the runners touch 3B and/or the plate without difficulty, and probably still see the foot at 1B. In this case, sure, if you see a pulled foot/whatever you give BU what you saw. But its still his call.

What I completely disagree with is your expectation/insistence that the PU prioritize his 'piggyback' of the 1B call over the touches at 3B and home. Its similiar to PU coming up to take the play on the lead runner at 3B in a R1-only situation: PU helps there if he can, but if he has to stay on the line to make a fair/foul call, then that's tough luck for the BU, the BU has to take that call.

Because the fair/foul call is the PU's priority. Just like the touch of 3B and HP is here.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by NIump50

In case you still don't know where I stand, here's the simple explanation.

Third base important
Home plate not as important as first.

I suggest you get yourself out to a clinic once in a while to learn about touch responsibilities instead of making it up yourself. You have to make sure you see him touch homeplate!


Tim.

[NIump50]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I suggest you get yourself out to a clinic once in a while to learn about touch responsibilities instead of making it up yourself. You have to make sure you see him touch homeplate!


Tim.

I don't need a clinic re: this issue. I know the mechanic and I know I'm arguing against it. I've said so in two other posts.

Why is it that some rules can be compromised with virtually universal approval and yet a mechanic cannot?

The odds of R3 missing the plate in this situation and being seen by a defensive player and being appealed is extremely miniscual.
The likelihood of BU asking PU for help at first, not so unlikely, in fact not even considered out of the ordinary.
So if you're playing the odds, where should you're eyes be to most likely avoid the proverbial SH**storm.
Let me finnish with this.

If, as in this case, F3 misses the bag, how many people, players, coaches, spectators and evaluators saw it? I'd say at minimum, 1st base coach, everyone in 3rd base dugout, most spectators on 3rd base side, pitcher, catcher and PU if he was looking.
If PU doesn't see this there's a whole lot of people wondering how this crew missed such an obvious call.
If, same situation R3 misses home, how many people see it?
I'd say, if any, 1.
Which of the two calls do you want to get right?

[gsf23]

Originally Posted by NIump50

You're joking right?
In this sitch everyone in the defensive dugout and on the field will be watching 1st as the throw leaves F6s hand.

Umm, yes, teams do do that. I have coached at the high school level before and every game I assigned my bench players certain duties. A couple would keep charts, a couple more would watch the opposing coaches to try to pick up any signs they were using and yes, another couple would be watching for missed bags, tag-ups and if the umpires were also watching.

And as far as no one else in the park will see that touch of home, my catcher damn well better see it. He has nothing else to do at home with the bases loaded and the play going to first.

[NIump50]

Originally Posted by gsf23

Umm, yes, teams do do that. I have coached at the high school level before and every game I assigned my bench players certain duties. A couple would keep charts, a couple more would watch the opposing coaches to try to pick up any signs they were using and yes, another couple would be watching for missed bags, tag-ups and if the umpires were also watching.

And as far as no one else in the park will see that touch of home, my catcher damn well better see it. He has nothing else to do at home with the bases loaded and the play going to first.

I'm not saying no one was assigned, though highly unlikely in most cases.
What I'm saying is these are 16,17,18 year old kids, bottom of 7th, bases loaded game winning out possibly being made at first, how many of these kids have the discipline to be watching home instead of their attention being diverted to first in this situation.
Like I said before, the reality of this situation is no one will even see a miss.