Delayed Dead Ball or Not?

[harmbu]

R2 and R3. Batter misses a bunt on a squeeze play and the runner from third get caught in a rundown. After making the throw to third, the catcher stays in the baseline and the runner runs into him and falls down. Is this an immediate dead ball or is it delayed? Where is the runner on second placed at the end of the play?

Thanks

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by harmbu

R2 and R3. Batter misses a bunt on a squeeze play and the runner from third get caught in a rundown. After making the throw to third, the catcher stays in the baseline and the runner runs into him and falls down. Is this an immediate dead ball or is it delayed? Where is the runner on second placed at the end of the play?

Thanks

I say it is a delayed dead ball in both FED and OBR. In OBR, it is type B (or 2) obstruction, as a play is not being made on the runner at the time of the obstruction. If R3 advances to 3rd on the play, he stays there. If not, he stays at 2nd base.

[PeteBooth]

Originally Posted by harmbu

R2 and R3. Batter misses a bunt on a squeeze play and the runner from third get caught in a rundown. After making the throw to third, the catcher stays in the baseline and the runner runs into him and falls down. Is this an immediate dead ball or is it delayed? Where is the runner on second placed at the end of the play?

Thanks

In OBR this is Type (A) OBS since the defense was playing on R3.

1. The call is TIME
2 That's OBS
3. Award R3 home.

Now we have R2. It's umpire judgement as to where to place R2. Generally speaking if R2 was halfway or greater to third base, award R2 third. If he was 1/3 of the way keep him at second.

In FED, we do not have to worry about the placement of R2 because in FED OBS is a delayed dead ball and we wait until all playing action is over before enforcing. Playing action ends, when all runners have stopped advancing.

Pete Booth

[SanDiegoSteve]

Pete is right. Type A in OBR on a rundown play.

[DG]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

In OBR this is Type (A) OBS since the defense was playing on R3.

1. The call is TIME
2 That's OBS
3. Award R3 home.

Now we have R2. It's umpire judgement as to where to place R2. Generally speaking if R2 was halfway or greater to third base, award R2 third. If he was 1/3 of the way keep him at second.

In FED, we do not have to worry about the placement of R2 because in FED OBS is a delayed dead ball and we wait until all playing action is over before enforcing. Playing action ends, when all runners have stopped advancing.

Pete Booth

I'm not going to allow R2 to advance to 3b if he was nowhere near 3b when obstruction occured and the ball is rolling around due to the obstruction. It may be delayed dead, but the offense will not gain an advantage.

[GarthB]

"There is no such thing as a delayed deadball under Major League Rules. It is live, or it is dead. It might become dead in the future, it might not. But there is no delayed deadball. That's a high school thing."

Jim Evans, November 2004

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by GarthB

"There is no such thing as a delayed deadball under Major League Rules. It is live, or it is dead. It might become dead in the future, it might not. But there is no delayed deadball. That's a high school thing."

Jim Evans, November 2004

I must save this post for BigUmp56, with whom I have had a running fued over this issue for some time now. I have long held that there is no delayed dead ball in OBR. There is in Little League, and they use the FED signal too. But in any other league with an OBR rule base, there is no such animal. In OBR, you point at the play and say "that's Obstruction," and you don't stick your left arm out to the side.

Tim, I'm not often right, but in this I am. I used the example in my original post to see if I could draw out some opinion to match my own, and I did. Apparently Reverend Jimmy agrees.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

There is in Little League, and they use the FED signal too. But in any other league with an OBR rule base, there is no such animal.

No Little League publication that I'm aware of that addresses umpiring mechanics, including the Rules Instruction Manual, the Umpire Clinic Manual, or The Umpire in Little League booklet, teaches the FED delayed-dead signal. Little League rules are derived from OBR, verbatim for the most part, and their training manuals are parallel with professional training with respect to signaling and enforcing delayed dead situations (e.g., pointing and saying "That's obstruction" and then letting the play continue for type B obstruction).

If you're receiving contrary information at the local league or district level, that wouldn't be the first time that's happened, but your local instructors are "off the reservation" with respect to any official Little League instruction.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by GarthB

"There is no such thing as a delayed deadball under Major League Rules. It is live, or it is dead. It might become dead in the future, it might not. But there is no delayed deadball. That's a high school thing."

Jim Evans, November 2004

Do you know how Evans reconciles that statement with his repeated references to "delayed dead ball" to explain some types of interference, balks, and type B obstruction, in his book Baseball Rules Annotated?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

Do you know how Evans reconciles that statement with his repeated references to "delayed dead ball" to explain some types of interference, balks, and type B obstruction, in his book Baseball Rules Annotated?

No...... how?