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Delayed Dead Ball or Not?
R2 and R3. Batter misses a bunt on a squeeze play and the runner from third get caught in a rundown. After making the throw to third, the catcher stays in the baseline and the runner runs into him and falls down. Is this an immediate dead ball or is it delayed? Where is the runner on second placed at the end of the play?
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Matthew 15:14, 1 Corinthians 1:23-25 |
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In OBR this is Type (A) OBS since the defense was playing on R3. 1. The call is TIME 2 That's OBS 3. Award R3 home. Now we have R2. It's umpire judgement as to where to place R2. Generally speaking if R2 was halfway or greater to third base, award R2 third. If he was 1/3 of the way keep him at second. In FED, we do not have to worry about the placement of R2 because in FED OBS is a delayed dead ball and we wait until all playing action is over before enforcing. Playing action ends, when all runners have stopped advancing. Pete Booth
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Peter M. Booth |
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"There is no such thing as a delayed deadball under Major League Rules. It is live, or it is dead. It might become dead in the future, it might not. But there is no delayed deadball. That's a high school thing."
Jim Evans, November 2004
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GB |
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Tim, I'm not often right, but in this I am. I used the example in my original post to see if I could draw out some opinion to match my own, and I did. Apparently Reverend Jimmy agrees.
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Matthew 15:14, 1 Corinthians 1:23-25 |
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Matthew 15:14, 1 Corinthians 1:23-25 |
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Personally, I believe the 2004 comment on its own must be out of context with respect to the point Evans may have been making. While there is no specific or explicit reference to "delayed dead ball" in the rules, there most certainly is a "delayed dead" principle, it is applied in several situations, and Jim Evans damn sure knows it. |
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In person, Jim teaches that there is no such animal as a delayed dead ball. It is either live or dead. His favorite example is batter's interference with the catcher's throw on a stealing R1. The ball remains live on the interference; then if the offense does not retire the runner, time is called, the ball is dead and enforcement follows. If the runner is retired, the interference is ignored, the ball remains live. Thus no need for a "delayed" dead ball. His 2004 comment was repeated, to my personal knowledge, again in 2006 and probably many other times. I did not take it out of context. I will ask him how he reconciles his teaching with his writings, but I will accept what he has instructed. I see no problem with it.
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GB Last edited by GarthB; Sat Jun 17, 2006 at 04:53pm. |
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I don't understand the point of proclaiming there is no such thing as a delayed dead ball, unless it is merely to point out that the rules are not explicit about it, but indeed the proper enforcement mechanism for several instances is very aptly described as utilizing the concept of a "delayed dead ball," just like Jim described in in his book. |
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I won't presume to speak for Evans, but FED does have a third "status" for the ball, in addition to live and dead, and signalling that status has its own mechanic (fist held out to the side). THIS is what OBR does not have.
The concept of calling "time" at the end of playing action in order to enforce a penalty might be (and often is) labeled "delayed dead," but that's not the language of the OBR. The trick is to use the concept without suggesting that the ball has a distinct status unavailable under OBR.
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Cheers, mb |
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I think it is more accurate to deal with as Evans teaches. Will the ball ALWAYS become dead on catcher's interferenece? Or will it either be dead or live depending on circumstances? If it is not assuredly to become dead, that is, it may remain live, then why would you want to always call it delayed dead?
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GB |
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