Game Forfieted...

[TussAgee11]

I had to forfiet the game I was scheduled to work today because one team only had 7 players. I asked the coach if anybody else was coming, and he said no. I called both managers to me, and notified them that this was a forfeit. I collected my game fees (pretty easy money I may add), and then was asked to stick around by one of the managers, because they were going to play anyway. They decided to pull a few kids out of the stands to play with them. I informed them that I would not do the game, since it was a forfeit. I pointed out 3 reasons why... the first being liability (what if a kid gets hurt), the second being association rules, and the third being the assignor would not be pleased with the league or myself.

I tried to be really nice, but it was clear this pissed both coaches off. As I was leaving the field, I noticed they started to play their scrimmage.

So here's my question... did I clear myself of liability from what went on during that scrimmage? If something happened, could I be in trouble for seeing a game go on that was not supervised by an umpire?

And did I do anything wrong? Never had to go through this situation before, just wanted to hear critisms or ideas.

Thanks.

[UmpJM]

TussAgee11,

From the perspective of a coach who has been on the coaching side of this situation (in more or less all material respects) I would say:

1. No, you most certainly did not do anything wrong - either in properly declaring the forfeit (assuming the league dictates forfeits in the case of inability to field a team), nor in declining to officiate the following "scrimmage" which the two teams decided to engage in.

2. I don't see how you could "be in trouble" or have incurred any liability because the two teams decided to engage in a scrimmage which you declined to officiate. However, I am not an attorney, and I stayed at home last night. As my brother, who IS an attorney (BTW, anyone heard any good "lawyer jokes lately?) once reminded me: "...America is a great country. You can be sued for getting up in the morning. Or not getting up in the morning, for that matter. ..."

3. The coaches had no business being upset with YOU.

4. While I wouldn't argue that it was "easy money", the fact of the matter is that you fulfilled your end of the contract (I'm assuming you showed up on time and were prepared to umpire a game).

And that's all I have to say about that.

JM

[UMP25]

It never ceases to amaze me that managers, coaches, and even some fans will blame the UMPIRE for acknowledging the forfeit then leaving when it's the short-handed team who caused the problem! You want to avoid the bittching and whining? Fine, have enough players in the first place!

[TussAgee11]

As my mother always told me, you can get sued for anything. Just a matter if you lose or not.

In a day in which umpires are being sued (and losing or having to settle) for kids swinging bats in dugouts when 3 coaches are in there watching it all unfold or the first bolt of lightning (no thunder or anything) hits the CF and the kid is dead by the time anybody gets out there, liability is becoming a huge deal in umpiring games (or in my case, not umpiring them). Not something any of us wants to be involved in, people want to place blame when things go wrong. I can't not make them go wrong, but I can try to get myself off the hook before it happens.

[orioles35]

Nothing good can come out of calling a game that's already a forfeit. Coaches are going to be irritated, both because of the forfeit and because you aren't permitted to stay and call anyway. Realize this, take your game fee and go enjoy the evening you just got handed back to you.

[mcrowder]

If these were high school teams, they could get in trouble for having an unauthorized scrimmage.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE=TussAgee11]I had to forfiet the game I was scheduled to work today because one team only had 7 players. I asked the coach if anybody else was coming, and he said no. I called both managers to me, and notified them that this was a forfeit.

As Umpires per rule we can DECLARE games a Forfiet but the ultimate decision to actually Forfeit the Game lies with the President of that particular league. The President may decide to replay the game.

In my association we make sure we get paid and then tell the coaches Not enough players game is cancelled. I then either call or E-mail my assignor and tell him the circumstances. My assignor will then contact the president of that league.

If the league does re-schedule it's another game FEE.

I collected my game fees (pretty easy money I may add), and then was asked to stick around by one of the managers, because they were going to play anyway.

They can play all they want but do not officiate the game. The coaches should be pissed off at the players who did not show. That's their problem not ours.

I tried to be really nice, but it was clear this pissed both coaches off. As I was leaving the field, I noticed they started to play their scrimmage.

As Leo Derosure once said "Nice guys finish last". Our responsibility is to show up at the field preferablly 1/2 hour before game time. The coaches job is to insure that he/she has enough players.

You met your responsibility, the teams didn't. Do not be "NICE". Simply take your FEE and go home. let them moan and groan all they want.

Example: It was raining pretty hard one afternoon. All games were cancelled except mine (for some ukknown reason). I went to the game site and the field was simply unplayable, however, before the game starts it's the coaches decision as to whether or not he wants to play. Once we take the field it then becomes ours.

I tried to save both coaches money. If the game doesn't start we get a travel FEE, however, if we take the field the game is under our control. Therefore, I said to the coaches, the field is unplayable and me and my partner will take our travel FEE save you some money and you can play another day. The coaches were vehement and said no no the field is ok.

Therefore, at that plate conference, we now got paid a FULL game FEE, exchanged line-ups and went over ground rules. After warm-ups I pointed Play, F1 threw one pitch and I called TIME - Game over due to unplayable conditions. You should have heard the moaning / groaning but who cares. Simply head for your car, do not engage in any conversations and go home. Inform the assignor and get ready for another day.

The only Time you do scrimmages is if it is a Scheduled Scrimmage in which the assignor sends umpires.

Pete Booth

It's unfortunate but you cannot be "NICE"

Side NOTE: Make certain there is something in the local rules that stipulates how long you must wait, otherwise in the future a coach might want you to "hang around" for an hour in trying to field a team. Normally it's 15-20 minutes after the official Start-Time.

[nickrego]

I will stay and work a Forfeited game as a 'scrimmage', as long as all the player's are from the two teams that were scheduled to play. In other words, the team with enough player's, loans a few to the other team.

And then, if it was a 9 inning game, I'll do 7 innings. A 7 inning game, and I'll do 5 innings.

[UMP25]

Just make sure, then, that your insurance covers you in liability situations. Regardless, I think you're opening yourself up to a heap of problems in such non-games. What do you do if someone pops off and you eject him? Do you boot him from a non-game? Do you declare a secondary forfeit if the originally lost-by-forfeit team does something wrong again?

I can see it now: "Hey! Don't make me forfeit this game again!"

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by nickrego

I will stay and work a Forfeited game as a 'scrimmage', as long as all the player's are from the two teams that were scheduled to play. In other words, the team with enough player's, loans a few to the other team.

And then, if it was a 9 inning game, I'll do 7 innings. A 7 inning game, and I'll do 5 innings.

In my experience, nothing good can come of this. One - it is extremely likely that should something bizarre happen to YOU, your insurance will not cover it. Two - coaches tend to get lax on certain rules in controlled scrimmages like this, but then go ape-**** when something they didn't want to be lax becomes lax - then what do you do, eject? Can't do that. I'll repeat - nothing good can come from you sticking around.

[PeteBooth]

Originally Posted by nickrego

I will stay and work a Forfeited game as a 'scrimmage', as long as all the player's are from the two teams that were scheduled to play. In other words, the team with enough player's, loans a few to the other team.

And then, if it was a 9 inning game, I'll do 7 innings. A 7 inning game, and I'll do 5 innings.

I strongly disagree with your approach.

A SCRIMMAGE game follows the same rules of a Regular season game EXCEPT, the game does not count in the standings. In other words a Scrimmage game is Sanctioned and put on the Schedule for the assignor.

In the example given you are not umpiring a Scrimmage game you are umpiring a form of sandlot game.

If you could Borrow players to begin with then you would have a regular game.

Also, IMO you are doing an injustice to your association and fellow blues. Meaning: Suppose the same situation arises and this one particular umpiring crew follows the rules and says no game. Then you will hear. The Guy last week let us play etc.

It's not our fault if a coach cannot field a team in accordance with the rules.
He should be upset with himself if he had a minimal roster size to begin with or the players who didn't show up.

Also, what are you going to do if your partner who was assigned with you wants to leave?

Pete Booth

[SanDiegoSteve]

Last night my horrible Pony game hit the time limit after 5 complete. As I was walking off the field I heard someone yell, "Hey Blue, why don't you let them play a couple more innings?" As I continued to walk off the field I replied, "sure, why not!"

[LilLeaguer]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

In my experience, nothing good can come of this. One - it is extremely likely that should something bizarre happen to YOU, your insurance will not cover it. Two - coaches tend to get lax on certain rules in controlled scrimmages like this, but then go ape-**** when something they didn't want to be lax becomes lax - then what do you do, eject? Can't do that. I'll repeat - nothing good can come from you sticking around.

If I were doing a "charity" game, and anybody acted up, I would eject myself.

But seriously, can't two teams scrimmage without an official? Tee says that if they didn't lie and cheat, they wouldn't need us.

(Though in my own experience, I often "officiate" at practice events. Pay and liability aren't an issue, due to the peculiarities of my organization )

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

In my experience, nothing good can come of this. One - it is extremely likely that should something bizarre happen to YOU, your insurance will not cover it.

Man, you must have some pretty shi--y health insurance.

As for liability insurance, most of the various sports official policies out there, such as through NASO, that group that sponsors umpire.org, Little League, etc., cover you in both official games and scrimmages.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

Man, you must have some pretty shi--y health insurance.

As for liability insurance, most of the various sports official policies out there, such as through NASO, that group that sponsors umpire.org, Little League, etc., cover you in both official games and scrimmages.

Do they cover for official games that become scrimmages, or for "scheduled scrimmages" only? I was unaware of policies that covered working games after they were officially over.