Game Forfieted...

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE=TussAgee11]I had to forfiet the game I was scheduled to work today because one team only had 7 players. I asked the coach if anybody else was coming, and he said no. I called both managers to me, and notified them that this was a forfeit.

As Umpires per rule we can DECLARE games a Forfiet but the ultimate decision to actually Forfeit the Game lies with the President of that particular league. The President may decide to replay the game.

In my association we make sure we get paid and then tell the coaches Not enough players game is cancelled. I then either call or E-mail my assignor and tell him the circumstances. My assignor will then contact the president of that league.

If the league does re-schedule it's another game FEE.

I collected my game fees (pretty easy money I may add), and then was asked to stick around by one of the managers, because they were going to play anyway.

They can play all they want but do not officiate the game. The coaches should be pissed off at the players who did not show. That's their problem not ours.

I tried to be really nice, but it was clear this pissed both coaches off. As I was leaving the field, I noticed they started to play their scrimmage.

As Leo Derosure once said "Nice guys finish last". Our responsibility is to show up at the field preferablly 1/2 hour before game time. The coaches job is to insure that he/she has enough players.

You met your responsibility, the teams didn't. Do not be "NICE". Simply take your FEE and go home. let them moan and groan all they want.

Example: It was raining pretty hard one afternoon. All games were cancelled except mine (for some ukknown reason). I went to the game site and the field was simply unplayable, however, before the game starts it's the coaches decision as to whether or not he wants to play. Once we take the field it then becomes ours.

I tried to save both coaches money. If the game doesn't start we get a travel FEE, however, if we take the field the game is under our control. Therefore, I said to the coaches, the field is unplayable and me and my partner will take our travel FEE save you some money and you can play another day. The coaches were vehement and said no no the field is ok.

Therefore, at that plate conference, we now got paid a FULL game FEE, exchanged line-ups and went over ground rules. After warm-ups I pointed Play, F1 threw one pitch and I called TIME - Game over due to unplayable conditions. You should have heard the moaning / groaning but who cares. Simply head for your car, do not engage in any conversations and go home. Inform the assignor and get ready for another day.

The only Time you do scrimmages is if it is a Scheduled Scrimmage in which the assignor sends umpires.

Pete Booth

It's unfortunate but you cannot be "NICE"

Side NOTE: Make certain there is something in the local rules that stipulates how long you must wait, otherwise in the future a coach might want you to "hang around" for an hour in trying to field a team. Normally it's 15-20 minutes after the official Start-Time.

[nickrego]

I will stay and work a Forfeited game as a 'scrimmage', as long as all the player's are from the two teams that were scheduled to play. In other words, the team with enough player's, loans a few to the other team.

And then, if it was a 9 inning game, I'll do 7 innings. A 7 inning game, and I'll do 5 innings.

[UMP25]

Just make sure, then, that your insurance covers you in liability situations. Regardless, I think you're opening yourself up to a heap of problems in such non-games. What do you do if someone pops off and you eject him? Do you boot him from a non-game? Do you declare a secondary forfeit if the originally lost-by-forfeit team does something wrong again?

I can see it now: "Hey! Don't make me forfeit this game again!"

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by nickrego

I will stay and work a Forfeited game as a 'scrimmage', as long as all the player's are from the two teams that were scheduled to play. In other words, the team with enough player's, loans a few to the other team.

And then, if it was a 9 inning game, I'll do 7 innings. A 7 inning game, and I'll do 5 innings.

In my experience, nothing good can come of this. One - it is extremely likely that should something bizarre happen to YOU, your insurance will not cover it. Two - coaches tend to get lax on certain rules in controlled scrimmages like this, but then go ape-**** when something they didn't want to be lax becomes lax - then what do you do, eject? Can't do that. I'll repeat - nothing good can come from you sticking around.

[LilLeaguer]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

In my experience, nothing good can come of this. One - it is extremely likely that should something bizarre happen to YOU, your insurance will not cover it. Two - coaches tend to get lax on certain rules in controlled scrimmages like this, but then go ape-**** when something they didn't want to be lax becomes lax - then what do you do, eject? Can't do that. I'll repeat - nothing good can come from you sticking around.

If I were doing a "charity" game, and anybody acted up, I would eject myself.

But seriously, can't two teams scrimmage without an official? Tee says that if they didn't lie and cheat, they wouldn't need us.

(Though in my own experience, I often "officiate" at practice events. Pay and liability aren't an issue, due to the peculiarities of my organization )

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

In my experience, nothing good can come of this. One - it is extremely likely that should something bizarre happen to YOU, your insurance will not cover it.

Man, you must have some pretty shi--y health insurance.

As for liability insurance, most of the various sports official policies out there, such as through NASO, that group that sponsors umpire.org, Little League, etc., cover you in both official games and scrimmages.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

Man, you must have some pretty shi--y health insurance.

As for liability insurance, most of the various sports official policies out there, such as through NASO, that group that sponsors umpire.org, Little League, etc., cover you in both official games and scrimmages.

Do they cover for official games that become scrimmages, or for "scheduled scrimmages" only? I was unaware of policies that covered working games after they were officially over.

[DG]

I may need to read the fine print but I expect my liability coverage to cover me whenever I am working a game, any kind of game.

But that said, I wouldn't work a forfeited game.

[blueskysblue]

A couple of things:

How many of you have actually had to "use" your insurance? Not health insurance for illness or injury, but insurance based upon something you did or did not do, as an official?

Secondly, IMHO every insurance policy is probably different, and most will do anything they can "not" to pay, so I'd be certain what the specific exclusions / inclusions were, before I relied upon it.

For example, it's my understanding that in the ASA world, the insurance an official has for the annual fee DOES NOT cover that official if the game is not "sanctioned" by ASA. What that means to me, then, is that even though I'm ASA legitimate, when I call community recreation department slow pitch games in that league, I am not covered because the league is not "sanctioned".

That makes me think a little - who is more likely to seek legal remedy, high school kids (where I'm covered by the school and NHFS), or grown men / women playing under a much "looser" organization, city government?

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Do they cover for official games that become scrimmages, or for "scheduled scrimmages" only? I was unaware of policies that covered working games after they were officially over.

NASO's coverage is very broad, covering "all activities as an official." Other policies I'm familiar with are similarly broad, with a few very specific exclusions, none of which make any distinction between official games vs. scrimmages.

[PABlue]

I wonder if I'd be covered for any injuries that occured when I went into the fund raising dunking booth at our local Cal Ripken tournament.LOL There was a LONNNNNG line of players and fans who wanted to "Dunk the Ump". First kid threw before I even knew he was started and I swear I think I broke my big toe when I hit the bottom of the tank.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

Man, you must have some pretty shi--y health insurance.

Dave:

During the school season, Washington umpires are considered "state employees" for the purposes of insurance during the actual time they work "official" games and are covered by the state Labor & Industries insurance (known as workmen's comp in some states). The state has advised us that we are not covered once a game is officially over, for any reason, forfeit, ten run, rain-out, regulation, whatever.

Due to the bureaucracy and accompanying red tape of dealing with the state, when I've been injured I've just opted to use my personal health insurance.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Dave:

During the school season, Washington umpires are considered "state employees" for the purposes of insurance during the actual time they work "official" games and are covered by the state Labor & Industries insurance (known as workmen's comp in some states). The state has advised us that we are not covered once a game is officially over, for any reason, forfeit, ten run, rain-out, regulation, whatever.

Due to the bureaucracy and accompanying red tape of dealing with the state, when I've been injured I've just opted to use my personal health insurance.

Personal health insurance is what I would think the "typical" amateur umpire would be relying on to treat injuries the umpire might sustain while working a game. My personal insurance doesn't care what I was doing when I got hurt, it sounds like yours doesn't either, but the guy I was responding to apparently thinks his personal insurance won't cover him if he gets hurt while working a game.

[PeteBooth]

Originally Posted by nickrego

I will stay and work a Forfeited game as a 'scrimmage', as long as all the player's are from the two teams that were scheduled to play. In other words, the team with enough player's, loans a few to the other team.

And then, if it was a 9 inning game, I'll do 7 innings. A 7 inning game, and I'll do 5 innings.

I strongly disagree with your approach.

A SCRIMMAGE game follows the same rules of a Regular season game EXCEPT, the game does not count in the standings. In other words a Scrimmage game is Sanctioned and put on the Schedule for the assignor.

In the example given you are not umpiring a Scrimmage game you are umpiring a form of sandlot game.

If you could Borrow players to begin with then you would have a regular game.

Also, IMO you are doing an injustice to your association and fellow blues. Meaning: Suppose the same situation arises and this one particular umpiring crew follows the rules and says no game. Then you will hear. The Guy last week let us play etc.

It's not our fault if a coach cannot field a team in accordance with the rules.
He should be upset with himself if he had a minimal roster size to begin with or the players who didn't show up.

Also, what are you going to do if your partner who was assigned with you wants to leave?

Pete Booth

[SanDiegoSteve]

Last night my horrible Pony game hit the time limit after 5 complete. As I was walking off the field I heard someone yell, "Hey Blue, why don't you let them play a couple more innings?" As I continued to walk off the field I replied, "sure, why not!"