foul ball and runner does not return to previous bag

[32setmsbloriole]

thats what i thought but the umpire did call him out but we won anyway thanks too all for the input and to say i new i was right but wanted to make sure. Good day and when another mistake is made ill ask again. Too you all for the input. and yes it took two pitched before either umpire or apposing team recocnized what had happend it was crazy if i must say so myself.

[lawump]

The following play did not happen to me, rather a member of my association asked me for my opinion as to what I would have done:

South Carolina FED Rules (which means there are NO appeal plays in SC. Umpire is to call runner(s) out for appealable violations (e.g. missed base) at the end of the play.):

R1, R2, no outs. Defense calls "time" and has a mound visit. R1 & R2 trot over to third base coaches' box to talk to the head coach (who was coaching third base, too). When "time" is over, R1 and R2 return to second base and third base, respectively, instead of first and second. One pitch is thrown, but not put in play. Umpires now realize what is going on. Umpire is convinced that this was an intentional tactic done by the offense...in otherwords umpire, in his judgment, did not believe this was done by mistake or accident.

The question posed to me: What would I have done?

My Answer (and I am NOT saying that my answer is absolutely correct. I welcome differing opinions!):

R1, R2 and head coach are all ejected under Joe Brinkman's theory (general principals). (maybe travesty of the game, etc.) Tell acting head coach to put two substitutes in the game and they are going to R1 and R2. The last pitch does not count.

One final note: I answered that question WITHOUT looking at a rulebook, and I have NOT looked at a rulebook yet while typing this post. I'm just posting what I said to the questioner off the top of my head, and probably what I would have done on the field (had this happened to me) without my rulebook. I welcome others to tell me if they'd handle it differently.

[orioles35]

Interesting topic, and oddly enough we've had the same thing happen here in the last couple of weeks.

We all agree the correct thing to do is to not put the ball back in play until runners return to the original bases.

As for the sitch in the last post, BOTH runners having moved up a bag after a conference with the coach is obviously intentional. What to do here if you notice it BEFORE a pitch has been thrown? At that point it's still intentional. Eject then? Put the ball in play, then immediately call time and eject? Honestly I have no idea here.

[ctblu40]

Good question lawump... it deserves a good answer... I don't think i have one for this though.
Here's what i would use in considering my course of action-
1) is the coach a jerk and known for this type of behavior?
2) did the ump catch it and talk to the coach? If so did the coach argue?
3) was it a tight game and an obvious intent to put the faster runner on second?

If the answer to these questions are all yes, then EJ. If there's any doubt, just correct the mistake.

[lawump]

Originally Posted by ctblu40

Good question lawump... it deserves a good answer... I don't think i have one for this though.
Here's what i would use in considering my course of action-
1) is the coach a jerk and known for this type of behavior?
2) did the ump catch it and talk to the coach? If so did the coach argue?
3) was it a tight game and an obvious intent to put the faster runner on second?

If the answer to these questions are all yes, then EJ. If there's any doubt, just correct the mistake.

(1) Don't know...I've never umpired a game with this coach, as this was a team from another part of the state playing at a local school we normally provide services for.

(2) Umpire caught it after one pitch, and he did talk to the coach. Coached argued only that it was an "accident"...he did not argue that they should be on first and second.

(3) Yes it was tight. I know nothing of the runners' speed.

Oh, by the way, the umpire involved returned the runners, restricted the coach to the dugout, and let the one pitch (called "strike") stand.

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by lawump

Oh, by the way, the umpire involved returned the runners, restricted the coach to the dugout, and let the one pitch (called "strike") stand.

hmmm.... this sounds good to me. I guess this is one instance in which I would use the "restricted to the dugout" rule.

[beachman]

Seen it; thought about it. Here's the call:

Runner returns to second. Ball put in play. Count is 0-0.

The two pitches were not pitches since, until R2 goes back, it's a dead ball situation. Even if B had hit a homer or popped out on the second pitch, he goes back up with a 0-0 count and R2 on second.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by lawump

(1) Don't know...I've never umpired a game with this coach, as this was a team from another part of the state playing at a local school we normally provide services for.

(2) Umpire caught it after one pitch, and he did talk to the coach. Coached argued only that it was an "accident"...he did not argue that they should be on first and second.

(3) Yes it was tight. I know nothing of the runners' speed.

Oh, by the way, the umpire involved returned the runners, restricted the coach to the dugout, and let the one pitch (called "strike") stand.

I would have a hard time ejecting both runners. They may be complying with the demands of a mean spirited base coach. I would eject the coach because he tried to gain an unfair advantage, but I can also agree with my partner's ruling to restrict coach to the dugout.

[RPatrino]

My question remains unanswered. How can this have happened in the first place? A runner advances on a foul ball, and NO ONE in the whole ball park notices it? Somebody have a logical explaination?

Maybe this never happened in the first place.