Verbal Obstruction ?

[Bainer]

Originally Posted by LMan

If you wish not to follow the FED rules, that's your decision.

I've never heard of NFHS or FED in my life. We don't use FED rules or guidelines.

We have no ammendments to the Official Rules of Baseball regarding verbal interference.


Bainer.

[UmpJM]

Bainer,

I see you are from Canada.

Here in the United States, there is an organization known as the National Federation of State High School Asssociations (aka NFHS, aka FED). They publish rulebooks, casbooks and officals' manuals for many sports that U.S. High Schools sponsor teams in.

Most (though not all) of the 50 states in the U.S. use these rulebooks as the governing rulesets for H.S. sports.

The FED baseball rules differ from OBR rules in many respects. For example, FED does indeed, explicitly have the notion of "verbal obstruction" in its rulebook, while the concept is completely absent from OBR rules. Another rule absent from OBR that is present in FED (and NCAA) id the Force Play Slide Rule (FPSR), which I see you commented on in another thread.

For someone who learned on OBR rules, some of the FED rules seem to make no sense and even to violate some of the basic principles which underly the OBR rules. Adding to the confusion is that the FED usually makes significant changes to the rules (and supporting casebooks) on an annual basis.

If you'd like to learn more, or order some FED rules literature, you can check it out at the link below:

http://www.nfhs.org/ScriptContent/Index.cfm

JM

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by Bainer

I've never heard of NFHS or FED in my life. We don't use FED rules or guidelines.

We have no ammendments to the Official Rules of Baseball regarding verbal interference.


Bainer.

Then you are apparently in one of the two states in the country that do not use NFHS rules (Rhode Island is one; I forget the other.)

Welcome to the internet, where you'll find other examples that there's a whole 'nother world out there beyond your livingroom.

[Carbide Keyman]

[QUOTE=Dave Hensley]Then you are apparently in one of the two states in the country that do not use NFHS rules (Rhode Island is one; I forget the other.)

We do not officiate by Fedlandia rules here in the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts.

Doesn't seem like I'm missing much!



Doug

[mcrowder]

Dave, it appears he's from the 51st state, Canada. (No offense meant toward the Canadians!)

BTW, you must be new here, as 75% of the discussions will be about FED (NFHS) rules, which apply, as mentioned above, to all high school games in 48 states, as well as other organizations. Welcome to the site.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Dave, it appears he's from the 51st state, Canada. (No offense meant toward the Canadians!)

I thought that was Puerto Rico.

[johnnyg08]

so just to clarify fellas..."Verbal Obstruction" is NOT located in the ORB (Pro rules)? I have seen it in FED...in fact it may have been on the test within the last couple years. Thanks guys.

[UMP25]

That is correct. "Verbal Obstruction" is not specified in the Official Baseball Rules.

[UmpJM]

johnnyg08,

That is correct, the concept of "verbal obstruction" is completely absent from OBR, while it is explicitly present in the FED rules.

Some experienced umpires have suggested to me that, in "lower level" games that use OBR as the foundation ruleset, it might make sense to apply the concept (especially if it is the opposing coach who is verbally obstructing the kid runner) in such games. Personally, I think they've got a point and I believe 9.01(c) would apply.

Visual obstruction, on the other hand, is pertinent to both rulesets.

JM

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

Then you are apparently in one of the two states in the country that do not use NFHS rules (Rhode Island is one; I forget the other.)

Welcome to the internet, where you'll find other examples that there's a whole 'nother world out there beyond your livingroom.

Four states, because Montana doesn't play high school baseball at all and it appears Wyoming doesn't either.

[Peruvian]

It is legal, (although discouraged here in my state) for the fielder to yell "Back! Back!". The only time it is enforced as verbal obstruction, is when the verbage causes the runner to go back into the base, like it did in the earlier case play..

[umpduck11]

Originally Posted by Peruvian

It is legal, (although discouraged here in my state) for the fielder to yell "Back! Back!". The only time it is enforced as verbal obstruction, is when the verbage causes the runner to go back into the base, like it did in the earlier case play..

Peruvian,
At the state camp this weekend, this very subject was discussed. The
directors and instructors were adamant that this is to be inforced. I found
it ironic that this discussion came up, after we dealt with it over the weekend.

[Peruvian]

Originally Posted by umpduck11

Peruvian,
At the state camp this weekend, this very subject was discussed. The
directors and instructors were adamant that this is to be inforced. I found
it ironic that this discussion came up, after we dealt with it over the weekend.

I know it was. But they also said you can't enforce it unless the verbage causes the runner to react.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Peruvian

I know it was. But they also said you can't enforce it unless the verbage causes the runner to react.

So all the runner has to do is pretend that the shortstop caused him to dive back into second base, and we have Verbal Obstruction. That's just great. Who's bright idea was that?

[begin rant]Jeez, the kids in LL can't say "Hey batter, swing!" anymore, fielders can't yell "back, back" and slap their gloves. We are raising a generation of panty-waist kids IMO. I hate to be one of those old farts I swore I'd never become, who talk about the "good old days," but c'mon! When I was a kid (yeah, I know, they didn't have automobiles then) there was no "must slide or avoid" crapola. We slid hard, took out catchers, and played rough and tumble country hardball. We yelled "hey batta batta, what's the matta batta, SWING batter!!!" Then we became teenagers and discovered girls .[end of rant]

[DG]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Four states, because Montana doesn't play high school baseball at all and it appears Wyoming doesn't either.

It seems un-American not to play baseball. What do young people do in Montana and Wyoming, rodeo?