Verbal Obstruction ?

[refman]

High school baseball...
Runner on first....stealing 2nd.....as he approaches the bag the second baseman shouts "foul ball, foul ball". Runner hears that and slows up to return to 1st. Second baseman takes throw from catcher and tags runner out.
What's the call?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Verbal obstruction, award R1 2nd base, and at the end of playing action an umpire may warn the 2nd baseman for unsportsmanlike conduct, and that he will be ejected if he repeats the offense.

[Bainer]

By the time they get to high school level ball, these kids can police themselves.

There is no way I'm call "Verbal Interference" at the high school level because a second baseman called a ball foul. Coaches tell these kids- keep running until the UMP stops you.

Yeah, it's bush, but I'm not getting involved.
Shortstops yell 'back' at runners all the time to fake a pick-off- that's legal. Players shout 'going!' or 'runner!' to try to draw a throw- no problem.

It's not my job to protect the runner.

I'm not going to tip them off on a hidden ball trick, and I'm not going to give him back a base he gave up- whether the fielder misled him or not.


Bainer.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Bainer

Shortstops yell 'back' at runners all the time to fake a pick-off- that's legal. Players shout 'going!' or 'runner!' to try to draw a throw- no problem.

Here we go again. No, it's not legal for a defensive player to yell "back, back" in an attempt to drive the runner back. This is verbal obstruction and the following case play will bear this out.


2.22.1 SITUATION A: R1 attempts to steal second. F2, upon receiving the pitch, throws a pop-up to F6. F5 yells "get back, get back." R1 thinks B2 has hit a popup and starts back to first where he is tagged out.

Ruling: This is verbal obstruction and R1 shall be awarded second base.


Tim.

[Bainer]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

This is verbal obstruction and the following case play will bear this out. 2.22.1 SITUATION A:

I don't mean to come off as aguementative- I'm certainly not trying to be- I'm just asking- what level ball is this case from? What league? What association? I can tell you that at no time have our local or regional associations observed any sort of "verbal interference".
In fact, we have gone so far as to advise umpires of defences to coaches concerns- such as "I didn't say it- he needs to listen to me, etc."
As I suggested, perhaps it's the level of ball, or the local association, I'm not sure- except to say that if I ever called it, I'd be eaten alive by the players, coaches, patners, and league officials.


Bainer.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by Bainer

I don't mean to come off as aguementative- I'm certainly not trying to be- I'm just asking- what level ball is this case from?

Its called "NFHS" or FED, in some circles. The FED casebook specifically calls this out as verbal obstruction.

If you wish not to follow the FED rules, that's your decision.

[Bainer]

Originally Posted by LMan

If you wish not to follow the FED rules, that's your decision.

I've never heard of NFHS or FED in my life. We don't use FED rules or guidelines.

We have no ammendments to the Official Rules of Baseball regarding verbal interference.


Bainer.

[UmpJM]

Bainer,

I see you are from Canada.

Here in the United States, there is an organization known as the National Federation of State High School Asssociations (aka NFHS, aka FED). They publish rulebooks, casbooks and officals' manuals for many sports that U.S. High Schools sponsor teams in.

Most (though not all) of the 50 states in the U.S. use these rulebooks as the governing rulesets for H.S. sports.

The FED baseball rules differ from OBR rules in many respects. For example, FED does indeed, explicitly have the notion of "verbal obstruction" in its rulebook, while the concept is completely absent from OBR rules. Another rule absent from OBR that is present in FED (and NCAA) id the Force Play Slide Rule (FPSR), which I see you commented on in another thread.

For someone who learned on OBR rules, some of the FED rules seem to make no sense and even to violate some of the basic principles which underly the OBR rules. Adding to the confusion is that the FED usually makes significant changes to the rules (and supporting casebooks) on an annual basis.

If you'd like to learn more, or order some FED rules literature, you can check it out at the link below:

http://www.nfhs.org/ScriptContent/Index.cfm

JM

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by Bainer

I've never heard of NFHS or FED in my life. We don't use FED rules or guidelines.

We have no ammendments to the Official Rules of Baseball regarding verbal interference.


Bainer.

Then you are apparently in one of the two states in the country that do not use NFHS rules (Rhode Island is one; I forget the other.)

Welcome to the internet, where you'll find other examples that there's a whole 'nother world out there beyond your livingroom.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by Bainer

I've never heard of NFHS or FED in my life. We don't use FED rules or guidelines.

We have no ammendments to the Official Rules of Baseball regarding verbal interference.


Bainer.

Hooray for you. Regardless of whether you ever heard of FED before, you asked what association or level had verbal interference, I answered your question (as did CJM, in much better detail). The OP said, "high school rules", which explicitly implies FED.

btw, I never heard of Canada, either

[Carbide Keyman]

[QUOTE=Dave Hensley]Then you are apparently in one of the two states in the country that do not use NFHS rules (Rhode Island is one; I forget the other.)

We do not officiate by Fedlandia rules here in the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts.

Doesn't seem like I'm missing much!



Doug

[mcrowder]

Dave, it appears he's from the 51st state, Canada. (No offense meant toward the Canadians!)

BTW, you must be new here, as 75% of the discussions will be about FED (NFHS) rules, which apply, as mentioned above, to all high school games in 48 states, as well as other organizations. Welcome to the site.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Dave, it appears he's from the 51st state, Canada. (No offense meant toward the Canadians!)

I thought that was Puerto Rico.

[johnnyg08]

so just to clarify fellas..."Verbal Obstruction" is NOT located in the ORB (Pro rules)? I have seen it in FED...in fact it may have been on the test within the last couple years. Thanks guys.

[UMP25]

That is correct. "Verbal Obstruction" is not specified in the Official Baseball Rules.