runner struck by thrown ball

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by DG

First, I will say that I would not call FPSR on a runner 6-10 feet from the bag. I played SS and 2B when I was youngster and a runner 6-10 feet from the bag is not in my way on a throw to 1B. Any decent middle infielder can make a slight adjustment to throw by him.

Sometimes on the internet people have posted about how they think it is funny when the first base coach tells Johnny to break up the double play because there is no legal way to break up a double play. So what if that slight adjustment slowed down the fielder just enough that the BR was safe at first? If you are allowing runners to intentionally get hit by throws (if you ingore it long enough, coaches will begin teaching their runners to go in standing up) and alter the throws of fielders by going in standing up you are letting the offense break up the double play.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by PWL

With all the protection they have, the fielders should be able to move to create a throwing lane.

So the runner should be able to make the fielder step to the side to create a throwing lane? That step to the side could be the difference between the BR being out or safe. I don't see how there is any debate over this play as the runner did not slide an obviously altered the play of the fielder.

Originally Posted by PWL

Ever notice how they duck or seem to run the opposite way.

That is what I have been saying all along. The runner should either get on the ground or get out of the way.

[David B]

Originally Posted by LDUB

So the runner should be able to make the fielder step to the side to create a throwing lane? That step to the side could be the difference between the BR being out or safe. I don't see how there is any debate over this play as the runner did not slide an obviously altered the play of the fielder.



That is what I have been saying all along. The runner should either get on the ground or get out of the way.

Teams that play good baseball don't have these problems as F6 and F4 are taught the proper fundamentals of taking the turn over second etc., on the double play ball.

However, unless there is obvious interference with the play, its going to be a stretch to call a FPSR in FED ball by an umpire saying it looked like he interfered with the play, or I thought he interfered with the throw.

I don't have the quote with me, but Carl had a great article a while back on the FPSR. R1 slides legally but hard into F4 making the turn on the DP. Coach, "that's interference". Umpire, "quit playing freshmen in the infield"

thanks
David

[NIump50]

Originally Posted by David B

Teams that play good baseball don't have these problems as F6 and F4 are taught the proper fundamentals of taking the turn over second etc., on the double play ball.

I beg to differ.
Good middle infielders are taught not to adjust their throw to avoid a runner.
All they need to do is put one hard one between the eyes of an interfering runner and they won't have to worry about making "adjustments" ever again playing that team.

Originally Posted by David B

However, unless there is obvious interference with the play, its going to be a stretch to call a FPSR in FED ball by an umpire saying it looked like he interfered with the play, or I thought he interfered with the throw.

I believe FPSR is for the safety of both runner and fielder. If so, it is easy to interpret the language of the rule to mean the runner needs to get out of the way. Do you really believe Fed intended to leave a loophole allowing the runner to legally get one upside the head?
For me, it's not a stretch to interpret and enforce a rule that encourages a runner to do what every major leaguer does, get the heck out of the way and prevent brain damage.
When I was in HS and College I was young and stupid and sometimes pi##ed off at the other team. There's nothing I would've liked better than to have a free shot at a runner. Until Fed. says different I have to believe they are trying to avoid the free shot.

Originally Posted by David B

I don't have the quote with me, but Carl had a great article a while back on the FPSR. R1 slides legally but hard into F4 making the turn on the DP. Coach, "that's interference". Umpire, "quit playing freshmen in the infield"

thanks
David

The only way R1 can slide hard 'into' F4 is if F4 is on the first base side of the bag, in which case he is on his own. Anywhere else, if R1 is sliding hard into him I've got interference and quite possibly sending R1 home to do his chores.

[johnnyg08]

basically the rule is slide or avoid. to be honest, from a former middle infielder's perspective, I'd like to try to turn the dang double play instead of depending on the umpire to make a tough call. especially in High School, that's what you're going to see...this is a pretty tough call to make because there's a wide open gray area for us umpires to use when making the decision...granted the slam dunk calls can be made by anybody...but lots of coaches simply don't know the rules. Bottom line...that's why this thread is so long...because there isn't a black and white answer here...this is a judgement call that absolutely needs to be sold by the umpire.

Many of you are talking about a flippin' 6 foot rule...what are you going to do...get a tape measure out on the field and realize that when it measures out to 6' 1" that not it's not interference??? C'mon...none of us would do that...99% of your runners will simply give themselves up by running into the infield grass unless it's going to be a banger at second or something like that...this isn't that tough of a call, unless you keep thinking about it...Sell whatever call you decide to make...there is not a Black or White answer here.

Have a great weekend,
Umpire John