Runner coliding with Catcher While Fielding a Thrown Ball

UmpJordan · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 20, 2004, 09:00pm

Just a simple situation. The catcher is blocking home plate about to receive a thrown ball. A runner tries to score from 2nd on a basehit. The throw comes in and the runner slides or collides with the catcher and the catcher holds his ground and does not allow the runner to touch the plate (without the ball in his possesion). Shortly after, the catcher catches the ball and tags the runner out. This happened in a major league game. What should the call be? Is this obstruction or should you call the runner out?

Atl Blue · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 20, 2004, 09:16pm

Which rules? In LL and NCAA, the catcher (or any fielder) must be IN POSSESSION of the ball, or the actions you described would be obstruction.

In straight OBR, if the catcher was in position to field the ball which was about to arrive (a distance which varies, and is a judgment call), then his play was legal. If he was blocking the plate and the ball was not about to arrive, obstruction.

In FED, the arrival of the ball must be "imminent" (again, a judgment call) in order for the fielder to block the base, otherwise obstruction.

So when you said "major league" game, if you are talking about MLB type of "major leagues" and not the LL version of "major leagues", if the ump judged the catcher were about to field the ball (typically judged to be a throw in the infield on a direct path to the catcher), then the block was legal. But so is the plowing by the runner, an act banned in some way in most amatuer leagues.

Jeremiah · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 21, 2004, 12:01am

"But so is the plowing by the runner, an act banned in some way in most amatuer leagues."

However, this would be legal in the MLB.

-Jeremiah

chris s · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 21, 2004, 01:14am

had this one couple seasons ago, back door pick at third. f5 would drop and block bag, runner had no chance. Ball was no where in sight, saw this from stands, then I am BU next game. Same play, different result. I banged obs, coach goes ballistic, then he goes home..........bummer.....for him

Gee · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 21, 2004, 06:52am

Obstruction is getting more confusing each year with all the different rulings. Must have possession, ball is immenent, making a play. I just do OBR and use 'making a play'.

Had a play last Sunday where F5 was standing right in front of third while facing second base, R2 was heading there. F2 released the ball to F5 and F5 blocked R2 from reaching the base before he got possession of the ball.

The problem was that F5 didn't HAVE to be where he was to make the play as the ball was thrown a tad behind him and he reached back, gloved the ball and brought it forward for the tag, without moving his feet.

I called obstruction claiming F5 didn't have to be where he was to make the play. The call stood but I got a lot of heat. I'm still not sure if I made the right call or got it mixed up with one of the other rulings. Enlighten me. G.

[Edited by Gee on Sep 21st, 2004 at 07:57 AM]

Atl Blue · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 21, 2004, 07:14am

"But so is the plowing by the runner, an act banned in some way in most amatuer leagues."

However, this would be legal in the MLB.

Jeremiah:

That was exactly my point, plowing the catcher is legal in MLB (within reason), but banned in most amatuer leagues.

That is the reason the MLB catchers get more lattitude in blocking the plate without an OBS call than do amatuer catchers. In MLB where the collisions are accepted, the umps let the catchers set up blocking the plate if the ball is in the infield on a direct line to the catcher. In most amatuer leagues, even those playing by OBR, the ball is going to have to be MUCH closer for the catcher to be considered in the act of fielding.

cbfoulds · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 21, 2004, 07:51am

OK, somebody reality check me on this one: saw it in a Babe Ruth Fall Ball [OBR with minor, irrelevent modifications] game last week~

R2, stealing 3d on a sorta-passed ball;
F2 throws, poorly, F5 goes to his knees, one leg on either side of the base, and STILL drops the ball.
Meanwhile, R2 has slid into the fielders leg, & hasn't touched the bag.
F5 fishes around for the ball for a split second, gloves it, and tags R2's foot, which is hard up against F5's own leg.
Ruling on the scene:
when the fielder dropped the ball, his leg being in the way became obstruction, runner is protected into 3d.

Correct?

greymule · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 21, 2004, 08:11am

I thought that in MLB (an interpretation, not the book) there was something about blocking the bag being legal as long as the throw was "in the air over the infield." However, it does seem that such a rule would permit the catcher to block the plate long before the ball got there.

Atl Blue · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 21, 2004, 08:57am

R2, stealing 3d on a sorta-passed ball;
F2 throws, poorly, F5 goes to his knees, one leg on either side of the base, and STILL drops the ball.
Meanwhile, R2 has slid into the fielders leg, & hasn't touched the bag.
F5 fishes around for the ball for a split second, gloves it, and tags R2's foot, which is hard up against F5's own leg.
Ruling on the scene:
when the fielder dropped the ball, his leg being in the way became obstruction, runner is protected into 3d.

Correct?

Wow, tough call against F5. Of course you had to be there, but as long as it was a "split second" and the ball did not get away from F5, no, I don't have obstruction. F5 took a legal position, then dropped the ball. He cannot be expected to disappear just becasue the ball is on the ground. If the ball rolled away or got passed him and he continued to block the base, absolutely, that's OBS. But a ball that is dropped within his reach and retrieved in a "split second", sounds to me like he was "in the act of fielding", which, in OBR, is the exception that allows him to block the base.

I thought that in MLB (an interpretation, not the book) there was something about blocking the bag being legal as long as the throw was "in the air over the infield." However, it does seem that such a rule would permit the catcher to block the plate long before the ball got there.

greymule: That is not an "Official Interpretation", but it is the rule of thumb used by many professional league umpires.

From the MLBUM:

If a fielder is about to receive a thrown ball and the ball is in flight directly toward and near enough to the fielder that he must occupy his position to receive the ball, he may be considered "in the act of fielding the ball". It is entirely up to the judgment of the umpire as to whether the fielder is "in the act of fielding the ball".

This is a standard used for PROFESSIONAL leagues. In Amatuer leagues, I don't give them nearly that much leeway. Depending on the level of play, the ball needs to be pretty much to the cutout (i.e., roughly 15') before I'm letting the catcher block the plate without the ball.

In LL and NCAA, technically, the catcher must be IN POSSESSION of the ball before blocking the base. I know at the discussion at the regional NCAA umpire's meeting last year, most veteran umps were saying that despite the change, if the ball was "close enough", they are still letting the catcher block the plate. They claim this is what the coaches want called, and that this is "just baseball".

gordon30307 · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 21, 2004, 09:18am

Here's an even tougher call to sell. Runner rounding third going to score. Throw from outfield up the third base line about 10 feet. Ball and runner get to the catcher about the same time. Runner runs into to catcher (not hard a little more than brushing against him a lot less than a crash)ball gets past the catcher and the runner scores. Defensive coach wants (these were 15 year olds) interference my partner who had the plate had nothing the play stands. As the field ump I thought it was a great call by my partner. However if the runner plows over the catcher we have an entirely different scenario. The obstruction/interference on tag plays are tough. When this happens you have to use all of your people skills to restore order.

Atl Blue · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 21, 2004, 09:44am

On a thrown ball, the runner must do something intentional to break up the throw in order to have interference. Bumping a catcher that is standing in the baseline doesn't even come close to an interference call.

Now, various leagues have rules regarding slide, attempt to get around, avoid contact, etc. Depending on the league, one of these rules MIGHT have come into play, but from the sound of your post, I doubt it.

But unless the runner did something you did not mention (i.e., put his hands up to pull down the catcher's glove, etc.), interference isn't even a possibility. Tell the coach to sit down and read a rulebook.