Third Dropped Strike

Stair-Climber · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 12:24am

I am working bases playing by NFHS rules. I would like opinion on NFHS and ASA rules.

1 out with runner (R2) on 1B. Catcher drops third stike. B3 takes off for 1B even though she is out and shouldn't run to 1B. Plate umpire doesn't say anything to B3 and doesn't attempt to stop B3. After pitch dropped, R2 at 1B (who took four or five steps toward 2B after pitch released), starts back to 1B. However, when R2 sees B3 running toward 1B, R2 takes off for 2B (instinctively, that is what most players would do when the player sees teammate running toward her base). Catcher makes play at 2B on R2 and easily throws her out. I also call B3 out--double play. By the book, I guess that is correct. However, afterwords I thought about this and this is my question: Would it have been acceptable for me to call dead ball and stop play? Call B3 out (since PU didn't and wouldn't) and send R2 back to 1B. In my opinion, R2 wanted to go back to 1B in the first place and had no intention on either advancing to 2B on the dropped third strike or stealing 2B. Should R2 be penalized for trying for 2B when it was obvious that she didn't want to go there in the first place? Or is it just too bad for the offensive team (double play) because B3 should have never started for 1B?

[Edited by Stair-Climber on Jun 16th, 2004 at 10:47 PM]

Ed Maeder · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 01:04am

Too bad, live ball runner in jeopardy. If the runner was stealing on the play and was thrown out by an alert catcher she would have been out same thing here.

bluezebra · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 01:15am

As they say in the broadcast booths, "Strike 'em out, throw 'em out".

Just another example of coaches not teaching their players.

"I also call BR out..."

Why? The batter (not BR, since she was out and did not have the right to attempt to advance to 1B) was already out. Not a dead ball situation. PU should have loudly called, "BATTER'S OUT! BATTER's OUT". It's up to the players to react (and know the rule).

[Edited by bluezebra on Jun 16th, 2004 at 02:20 AM]

TexBlue · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 05:20am

As PU, I always say "Batter's out!", then let the play unfold. It's just bad baserunning on the R2's part. That's
their fault. As BUI wouldn't say anything about the batter until I've given the PU every chance in the world to correct the situation. Then step in and inform the offense they have no runners left.

As BU I don't even watch any play being made on the batter. My responsibility is R2.

whiskers_ump · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 06:03am

Quote:

Originally posted by TexBlue
As PU, I always say "Batter's out!", then let the play unfold. It's just bad baserunning on the R2's part. That's
their fault. As BUI wouldn't say anything about the batter until I've given the PU every chance in the world to correct the situation. Then step in and inform the offense they have no runners left.

As BU I don't even watch any play being made on the batter. My responsibility is R2.

Rick,

I know you mean in the situation presented. Cause in any
other sit, R2 is still your responsibilty.

Man, we are getting a soaking. Been down pouring since
4:15 AM. Don't think we can hold much more. Getting my
boat ready. :eke:

SamNVa · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 09:02am

This is great!

Finally a smart catcher who was able to capitalize on this play.

Normally we get posts from coaches complaining that the batter took off to 1st in some nefarious scheme to confuse the poor catcher and allow the runner to advance to 2nd.

It is refreshing to read a post about a catcher who knows how to handle this situation, so No, Stairclimber, you should not call time in this situation and rob the catcher of a well-earned out.

SamC

Skahtboi · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 04:32pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Stair-Climber
Would it have been acceptable for me to call dead ball and stop play?

No. In this case the ball is live, and play is still allowed.

Quote:

Should R2 be penalized for trying for 2B when it was obvious that she didn't want to go there in the first place?

Yes. It is the job of the coaches and the players to be aware of the situation. In this case, they should know that with 1st base occupied and less than 2 out, the D3K rule was not in effect.

Quote:

Or is it just too bad for the offensive team (double play) because BR should have never started for 1B?

Yup.

TwoBits · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 06:17pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Stair-Climber
[B]I am working bases playing by NFHS rules. I would like opinion on NFHS and ASA rules.

1 out with runner (R2) on 1B. Catcher drops third stike.

Proper terminology is "uncaught third strike". I'm as guilty as anybody as saying "dropped" third strike and am trying to change my ways.

Stair-Climber · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 10:06pm

Thanks everyone. Especially thanks to Rick for his advise. When the play occurred, my focus was more on batter running to 1B instead of where it should have been, runner heading for 2B. I just felt a little bad for runner at 1B. She wanted to stay there but felt obligated to vacate 1B and run to 2B when batter was running full speed to 1B.

SC Ump · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 23, 2004, 08:26pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Stair-Climber

... Catcher makes play at 2B on R2 and easily throws her out...

Was the "play" a tag? Remember that with one out and the BR out as stated by others about, the play at second is not a force and a tag must be applied. If there had been two outs, then the force would have been in effect. (I think I might be stating the obvious... but just in case anyone missed it.)