Dropped third strike...and then some!

[Spookyant]

Tough question for you, sirs:

Junior Division: Runner on second, first base unoccupied, two out, home team at bat, and the visiting team is ahead by one run in the bottom of the 6th inning.

Strike three is called by the umpire, catcher makes the catch with "webbing down" in the dirt. Umpire calls strike three, but does not announce batter is out or call game. All players leave the field to begin post-game congratulations.

The last batter removes his helmet and abandons his bat to join team in congrats to visiting team. (Batter does not enter dugout/bench area). Home teams' manager suddenly tells batter to put helmet back on and run to first. Confused, the batter does so, and continues running bases after prompts from his team to continue. Visiting team is instructed by their manager to ignore this event and focus on his post-game celebratory words. The batter/runner stops at third, removes his helmet and finishes the teams' game ending ceremonies. Home team manager files a protest, claiming the catcher dropped the ball, which is upheld by Umpire-In-Chief. The managers' evidence was that he saw the ball rolling toward the mound at the games' end. The catcher claims to have thrown the ball back to the pitcher. Pitcher claims to have given the ball to the first base ump who rolled the ball to the mound. First base ump supports this claim when asked by Umpire-In-Chief.

Days later, the decision is reached granting the batter in question first base, and the runner from second is GIVEN HOME PLATE! The score is now TIED as the game is restarted from that point.

On what grounds does the runner receive the right to score? Wouldn't said runner be forced to return to second at games' restart? Could visiting team appeal that runner abandoned, or that batter/runner passed preceding runner on the bases when he continued past first? So many questions in this one...

Thank you for your help!!

[Rich]

Originally posted by Spookyant
Tough question for you, sirs:

Junior Division: Runner on second, first base unoccupied, two out, home team at bat, and the visiting team is ahead by one run in the bottom of the 6th inning.

Strike three is called by the umpire, catcher makes the catch with "webbing down" in the dirt. Umpire calls strike three, but does not announce batter is out or call game. All players leave the field to begin post-game congratulations.

The last batter removes his helmet and abandons his bat to join team in congrats to visiting team. (Batter does not enter dugout/bench area). Home teams' manager suddenly tells batter to put helmet back on and run to first. Confused, the batter does so, and continues running bases after prompts from his team to continue. Visiting team is instructed by their manager to ignore this event and focus on his post-game celebratory words. The batter/runner stops at third, removes his helmet and finishes the teams' game ending ceremonies. Home team manager files a protest, claiming the catcher dropped the ball, which is upheld by Umpire-In-Chief. The managers' evidence was that he saw the ball rolling toward the mound at the games' end. The catcher claims to have thrown the ball back to the pitcher. Pitcher claims to have given the ball to the first base ump who rolled the ball to the mound. First base ump supports this claim when asked by Umpire-In-Chief.

Days later, the decision is reached granting the batter in question first base, and the runner from second is GIVEN HOME PLATE! The score is now TIED as the game is restarted from that point.

On what grounds does the runner receive the right to score? Wouldn't said runner be forced to return to second at games' restart? Could visiting team appeal that runner abandoned, or that batter/runner passed preceding runner on the bases when he continued past first? So many questions in this one...

Thank you for your help!!

I only have one -- what morons are on your protest committee?

[brian43]

that is one of the most asinine situations i have read in a long time.

[mcrowder]

First, uncaught 3rd strike is a JUDGEMENT CALL, and not subject to protest.

Then, even if umpire ruled U3K was actually in effect, runner is out when he abandons 2nd, and/or batter is out when passing runner. No scenario I can imagine, unless serious money exchanged hands ( ), could explain this protest committee's ruling.

[Spookyant]

Originally posted by brian43
that is one of the most asinine situations i have read in a long time.

The thing is, our poor boys have to go out tonight to finish this game wondering how they ended up tied from a "ghost runner". And now the kids have got to work their butts off to get a third out to prevent a loss, and an eventual elimination from the Tournament Of Champions. A loss here would also eliminate a coach from being the manager of the All-Stars team. I found it highly politically motivated, as are most of the asinine situations in this little league.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Spookyant

The thing is, our poor boys have to go out tonight to finish this game wondering how they ended up tied from a "ghost runner". And now the kids have got to work their butts off to get a third out to prevent a loss, and an eventual elimination from the Tournament Of Champions. A loss here would also eliminate a coach from being the manager of the All-Stars team. I found it highly politically motivated, as are most of the asinine situations in this little league.

Since the runner never touched home plate, I would appeal after the ball is put into play. Have your pitcher step off and throw to the catcher and have him appeal by stepping on the plate. When that's denied, protest the game yourself.

I'm going to go umpire 2 Legion games, where I hope my calls are limited to the basic six.

--Rich

[DG]

Originally posted by Spookyant
Tough question for you, sirs:

Junior Division: Runner on second, first base unoccupied, two out, home team at bat, and the visiting team is ahead by one run in the bottom of the 6th inning.

Strike three is called by the umpire, catcher makes the catch with "webbing down" in the dirt. Umpire calls strike three, but does not announce batter is out or call game. All players leave the field to begin post-game congratulations.

The last batter removes his helmet and abandons his bat to join team in congrats to visiting team. (Batter does not enter dugout/bench area). Home teams' manager suddenly tells batter to put helmet back on and run to first. Confused, the batter does so, and continues running bases after prompts from his team to continue. Visiting team is instructed by their manager to ignore this event and focus on his post-game celebratory words. The batter/runner stops at third, removes his helmet and finishes the teams' game ending ceremonies. Home team manager files a protest, claiming the catcher dropped the ball, which is upheld by Umpire-In-Chief. The managers' evidence was that he saw the ball rolling toward the mound at the games' end. The catcher claims to have thrown the ball back to the pitcher. Pitcher claims to have given the ball to the first base ump who rolled the ball to the mound. First base ump supports this claim when asked by Umpire-In-Chief.

Days later, the decision is reached granting the batter in question first base, and the runner from second is GIVEN HOME PLATE! The score is now TIED as the game is restarted from that point.

On what grounds does the runner receive the right to score? Wouldn't said runner be forced to return to second at games' restart? Could visiting team appeal that runner abandoned, or that batter/runner passed preceding runner on the bases when he continued past first? So many questions in this one...

Thank you for your help!!

If UIC ruled no catch on 3rd strike then BR is free to go to 1B if he has not entered the dugout and if runner on 2B is ignored and crossed the plate then he scores. You did not say what happened to runner on 2B so can't comment on your questions regarding him. I can only assume he scored. The defensive coach was wrong to tell his players to ignore what was going on.

What I don't understand is that the UIC ruled as you say, why the game was not continued with R1 on 1B and two outs, with tie score.

[Spookyant]

If UIC ruled no catch on 3rd strike then BR is free to go to 1B if he has not entered the dugout and if runner on 2B is ignored and crossed the plate then he scores. You did not say what happened to runner on 2B so can't comment on your questions regarding him. I can only assume he scored. The defensive coach was wrong to tell his players to ignore what was going on.

What I don't understand is that the UIC ruled as you say, why the game was not continued with R1 on 1B and two outs, with tie score.

Runner on 2b left the field assuming the games' end, as did all defensive players, etc. It was as the teams were about to shake hands that BR grabbed a helmet and began to run the bases. No one else took the field.

The protest was logged and the visitor teams' manager was instructed to "stick around". A committee ruled to restart game later as a game was scheduled to start immediately following the protested game in question.

[DG]

Originally posted by Spookyant

Runner on 2b left the field assuming the games' end, as did all defensive players, etc. It was as the teams were about to shake hands that BR grabbed a helmet and began to run the bases. No one else took the field.

The protest was logged and the visitor teams' manager was instructed to "stick around". A committee ruled to restart game later as a game was scheduled to start immediately following the protested game in question.

Runner on 2b left the field. Game over. Error on the committee.

[LDUB]

Originally posted by Spookyant

Runner on 2b left the field assuming the games' end, as did all defensive players, etc. It was as the teams were about to shake hands that BR grabbed a helmet and began to run the bases. No one else took the field.

The protest was logged and the visitor teams' manager was instructed to "stick around". A committee ruled to restart game later as a game was scheduled to start immediately following the protested game in question.

[/b]

Hold on a second. Your game ends, and the other manager files a protest. So the protest is then heard by the protest committee, and ruled upon before the next game was to start? How much time is there between games, half hour, hour? If any protest is upheld in such a short ammount of time, there is something fishy about it.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Since the runner never touched home plate, I would appeal after the ball is put into play. Have your pitcher step off and throw to the catcher and have him appeal by stepping on the plate. When that's denied, protest the game yourself.

I'm going to go umpire 2 Legion games, where I hope my calls are limited to the basic six.

--Rich

I knew I was jinxing myself. Ended up dumping the visiting team's head coach in game 1. Fortunately, it was a tournament and I had 2 different teams in game two. I can't remember the last time I ran a coach/manager before tonight.

[Spookyant]

Sorry to hear that, Rich. Little League (etc.) just ain't what she used to be...

[Spookyant]

OK...here's how it all ended...The home team was instructed to place runner from 2B on 3B...no run scores (Score is visitors 9, home 8). BR is now on 1B due to "dropped third strike". New batter at the plate.

First pitch is a strike. Runner from first goes, tempting a throw from Catcher. Catcher pops up and THROWS (ahhhhh noooo!!!) a high throw to the PITCHER!! (Haha...the catcher is my son BTW...). The runner from third is sent, pitcher fires to home, tag, he's out, game over! We won.

Coach asked the catcher (that's my boy) if it was planned. He grins from ear to ear and says "uh huh". (He never has been much of a communicator.)

Even though they didn't make TOC this year, as parents we are proud.

[cbfoulds]

Looks like the boys are smarter than the Protest Committee. Not unusual, in my experience.

[DG]

Originally posted by Spookyant
OK...here's how it all ended...The home team was instructed to place runner from 2B on 3B...no run scores (Score is visitors 9, home 8). BR is now on 1B due to "dropped third strike". New batter at the plate.

First pitch is a strike. Runner from first goes, tempting a throw from Catcher. Catcher pops up and THROWS (ahhhhh noooo!!!) a high throw to the PITCHER!! (Haha...the catcher is my son BTW...). The runner from third is sent, pitcher fires to home, tag, he's out, game over! We won.

Coach asked the catcher (that's my boy) if it was planned. He grins from ear to ear and says "uh huh". (He never has been much of a communicator.)

Even though they didn't make TOC this year, as parents we are proud.

Yep, that's play 1 in my book of plays for runners on 1st and 3rd, when I coached. It works quite often, if the catcher, SS and 2B "sells it".