The phantom out (Expected call)

[Striker991]

Once again I must revisit this issue, even though I am already aware of how the "big dogs" will respond. Last night in the Orioles at Seattle game, Carl Everett attempted the steal of 2nd base. It was obvious that the ball beat him there, by quite a bit. However, it was equally obvious that the tag wasn't even close and missed Everett by a mile. While I understand the safety issues involved and the need to avoid injury by not keeping the glove down to get nailed by cleats (sweep tag), I also feel that when the miss is so obvious (from every angle) that an out should not be awarded. The 2nd base umpire looked terribly foolish and you could see the look on his face when he made that call he was making "the expected call" that everyone knew was wrong. While he garnered no argument at the time (because everyone knew what had occurred and why the call was made), Carl Everett summed it up nicely in the postgame interview..."it is lazy man's baseball." To paraphrase, it is umpiring baseball without balls.

Okay dogs...time to defend purposely making the wrong call because it is "expected."

[SanDiegoSteve]

Well, I once had a very famous and well respected local Varsity coach come out on me, and with stank breath in my face let me know in no uncertain terms that "we're paying you good money to make that call!" So, that is just the way the good folks of baseball want it called. Ball there way before the runner, and any kind of tag put down there results in a big, fat out.

I learned the hard way on that call. My "safe, no tag!" call got me a big butt chewing, and I have taken much less grief by making the expected call ever since. Occasionally, a coach or player will briefly whine "he didn't tag me, Blue" but that is usually the extent of it.

I don't think it's lazy baseball, I just think that poor baserunning should not be rewarded because of some fancy hook-slide at the last second. If it's a bang-bang play, by all means get it right. But don't call a runner safe when the tag has been waiting on the runner.

[pdxblue]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Well, I once had a very famous and well respected local Varsity coach come out on me, and with stank breath in my face let me know in no uncertain terms that "we're paying you good money to make that call!" So, that is just the way the good folks of baseball want it called. Ball there way before the runner, and any kind of tag put down there results in a big, fat out.

I learned the hard way on that call. My "safe, no tag!" call got me a big butt chewing, and I have taken much less grief by making the expected call ever since. Occasionally, a coach or player will briefly whine "he didn't tag me, Blue" but that is usually the extent of it.

I don't think it's lazy baseball, I just think that poor baserunning should not be rewarded because of some fancy hook-slide at the last second. If it's a bang-bang play, by all means get it right. But don't call a runner safe when the tag has been waiting on the runner.

Wow! If you were my partner, I would chew YOUR ***!

As I moved up into the college ranks, I found a much higher appreciation for making the RIGHT call, even when it isn't popular!

A no tag is a no tag! There is no "expected call", and I agree that it is lazy man's baseball to call it any other way! Be a man and make the right call!

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by pdxblue

Wow! If you were my partner, I would chew YOUR ***!

As I moved up into the college ranks, I found a much higher appreciation for making the RIGHT call, even when it isn't popular!

A no tag is a no tag! There is no "expected call", and I agree that it is lazy man's baseball to call it any other way! Be a man and make the right call!

First, if you were my partner, and chewed my senior, much more experienced a$$, I would proceed to kick yours, and we would see who's a man. In fact if any umpire deemed to "chew my a$$," they would find themselves laid out very quickly.

I ain't on my first rodeo. I have many years of good, solid experience, and I know how that call is made at the highest level of baseball, and that is how I call it too. When the ball beats the runner by a half-mile, the call that every coach I know of wants made is "out." That is the "accepted" call, as well as the "expected" call in the big leagues, so what makes it any different at lower levels? It is different on a fairly close play, or a banger, naturally. In these cases, reward the runner for his outstanding slide. But not when he's thrown out by 20 feet.

[pdxblue]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

First, if you were my partner, and chewed my senior, much more experienced a$$, I would proceed to kick yours, and we would see who's a man. In fact if any umpire deemed to "chew my a$$," they would find themselves laid out very quickly.

I ain't on my first rodeo. I have many years of good, solid experience, and I know how that call is made at the highest level of baseball, and that is how I call it too. When the ball beats the runner by a half-mile, the call that every coach I know of wants made is "out." That is the "accepted" call, as well as the "expected" call in the big leagues, so what makes it any different at lower levels? It is different on a fairly close play, or a banger, naturally. In these cases, reward the runner for his outstanding slide. But not when he's thrown out by 20 feet.

God knows how you survived.

So, we call the game the coach wants called? So for the sake of what is "accepted", you risk "integrity"?

I am NOT going to reward a fielder for a sloppy tag! If the throw beat him by 20 feet, that is 20 feet the fielder has to put on a SPECTACULAR tag.

As to you being "senior", you have no idea IF you are "senior". You may be "senior citizen", complete with horrible eye site and not quite sure if there was a tag or not, but, I have well over 20 years umpiring. Even IF you have more than that, and I could care less at WHAT level, if you are making a pathetic out call on a tag that never happened just because that is what is "expected", and "what the coach wants", you WILL get an *** chewing from me (and much deserved). As to you "kicking" my ***? LOL Ok, live your dream.

Many coaches walk away "mad" about me making the RIGHT call, but when the "right" call goes THEIR way, and they know for certain that someday one will, they are thankful for my integrity.

Out of all the great umpires that have mentored me over the years, not ever has one of them ever suggested that I make a wrong call because that is what is "expected", or "what the coach wants". It has always been suggested to make the RIGHT call always, and for that effort, I have done very well and have the respect of partners AND coaches!

[LakeErieUmp]

A hook-slide is not "fancy", it's a way to deke a fielder and catch the outside of the bag while he's thinking you're going in straight. It's called BASERUNNING and it's why baseball is a great game.
By the way, in your league do you have "pitcher's mound's out for first" too"

[Rich]

Originally Posted by pdxblue

Wow! If you were my partner, I would chew YOUR ***!

As I moved up into the college ranks, I found a much higher appreciation for making the RIGHT call, even when it isn't popular!

A no tag is a no tag! There is no "expected call", and I agree that it is lazy man's baseball to call it any other way! Be a man and make the right call!

A partner chewing my ***? That would be a first.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

A partner chewing my ***? That would be a first.

And probably a last also.....