Catch off dougout or backstop ground rule?

[tskill]

NFHS, can the ball ever be caught off the dougout facing for an out? or off an over hanging backstop for an out?

[briancurtin]

nope, you just have a foul ball

[UmpJM]

tskill,

briancurtin has given you the correct call. The reason is that for a batted ball to be legally "caught" for an out, said batted ball must be "in flight" at the time of the catch.

Once the batted ball touches anything other than a fielder (including his properly attached equipment/uniform) it is no longer "in flight" and can no longer be caught for an out.

JM

[briancurtin]

i should step it up and back my claims. thanks to JM for picking that one up for me, i probably should have explained it rather than the few word answer i gave.

[tskill]

No problem, I just had the oddest thing during a pre-game conference, the home coach insisted that it should be an out and that "we've been playing that ground rule all year" came out. I wouldn't allow it and after a lengthy pre-game he finally agreed to play ball. Was crazy, but after reading some of the posts here maybe not so. Thanks for the replies.

[UmpJM]

tskill,

Good job! Ain't "ground rules" fun?

FWIW, here's the relevant rule from OBR (FED & NCAA do not materially differ):

3.13
The manager of the home team shall present to the umpire in chief and the opposing manager any ground rules he thinks necessary covering the overflow of spectators upon the playing field, batted or thrown balls into such overflow, or any other contingencies. If these rules are acceptable to the opposing manager they shall be legal. If these rules are unacceptable to the opposing manager, the umpire in chief shall make and enforce any special ground rules he thinks are made necessary by ground conditions, which shall not conflict with the official playing rules.

I say "Good job!" because if you had accepted the Home team coach's ridiculous "ground rule", it would have been "...in conflict with the official playing rules."

Normally, ground rules dictate what is and is not considered "dead ball territory" due to the peculiarities of the venue at which the game is being played. If you ever hear anything else being suggested as a "ground rule", I would encourage you to have your BS-detector set on "high". Ultimately, the UIC has the final say.

(MLB has the ground rules for each of the MLB parks published on their website, in case you didn't already know.)

JM

[LilLeaguer]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

tskill,

Good job! Ain't "ground rules" fun?

FWIW, here's the relevant rule from OBR (FED & NCAA do not materially differ):

I say "Good job!" because if you had accepted the Home team coach's ridiculous "ground rule", it would have been "...in conflict with the official playing rules."

Normally, ground rules dictate what is and is not considered "dead ball territory" due to the peculiarities of the venue at which the game is being played. If you ever hear anything else being suggested as a "ground rule", I would encourage you to have your BS-detector set on "high". Ultimately, the UIC has the final say.

(MLB has the ground rules for each of the MLB parks published on their website, in case you didn't already know.)

JM

Curious ground rules, though. At Safeco Field, for example, balls that hit a roof truss in fair territory can still be caught for an out.

I think that this ground rule is permitted when a ball hits a suspended object in fair territory; I don't think that a ground rule could make such a ruling for anything in foul territory, or a "fixed" object like Fenway's Green Monster.

Does anybody know the latitude that ground rules can take in this area?

[nickrego]

Lots of fields play a ball off the face of the dugout as live.

But that only applies to a THROWN ball.

A batted ball that hits the face of a dugout, is no different than if it hit the fence...FOUL.