Umpire Call Changed

[Little Papas]

The base umpire makes an OUT call on the basepath from home to first, the homplate umpire overules his call and calls him safe. Can the homeplate umpire overule the call of the base umpire? If so, Why?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Little Papas

The base umpire makes an OUT call on the basepath from home to first, the homplate umpire overules his call and calls him safe. Can the homeplate umpire overule the call of the base umpire? If so, Why?

Apparently, he can and did.

Taking you at your word that is was an "overrule", it's not proper, though.

Now, maybe it really was PU's call. In that case, his call would stand. Or, maybe BU asked for help. In that case, it should be BU who changes his call, but the effect is the same.

[JRutledge]

Could you give us an example of what happen?

Peace

[Little Papas]

Thanks,
The BU did not ask for help the HU was approached by the team's coach to appeal the call a conference of umpires was called and the call was changed.

This is what happened: A ball was hit to 3rd base, the 3rd baseman threw the ball and took the 1st baseman off the bag, and he then turned and tagged the runner as he passed him by the BU called him out on the tag.

If the call was changed because of lack of vision, I could understand the HU asking if he saw the play, but the BU said he saw the play clearly and the runner was out. What do you think? Should the call stand?

[Rich Ives]

a conference of umpires was called and the call was changed.


Well that's different from what you initially described. It's probably OK in that case as infomation was exchanged and the call revised.

[JRutledge]

So we have a play at first and the BU made a call and the PU came and "overruled" the original call. Well the PU cannot do unless he wants anarchy. I guess he did it and the call was changed, I just know some umpires that might walk off the field if an umpire did that to his partner.

Peace

[Justme]

Originally Posted by Little Papas

Thanks,
The BU did not ask for help the HU was approached by the team's coach to appeal the call a conference of umpires was called and the call was changed.

This is what happened: A ball was hit to 3rd base, the 3rd baseman threw the ball and took the 1st baseman off the bag, and he then turned and tagged the runner as he passed him by the BU called him out on the tag.

If the call was changed because of lack of vision, I could understand the HU asking if he saw the play, but the BU said he saw the play clearly and the runner was out. What do you think? Should the call stand?

PU's are often asked by a coach to talk with his partner because he didn't like his partners call. In your situation I would say something like "It's his call coach."

The coach has to convince my partner to ask me for help. If he does then I tell my partner what I saw BUT I can not change his call. The BU made the call and he has to be the one to change it.

[Thom Coste]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

a conference of umpires was called and the call was changed.


Well that's different from what you initially described. It's probably OK in that case as infomation was exchanged and the call revised.

No. It's not OK.

The base umpire made the call. He saw it, he made the call.

The plate umpire was out of line.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by Thom Coste

No. It's not OK.

The base umpire made the call. He saw it, he made the call.

The plate umpire was out of line.

If the BU requested a conference then, clearly, he was seeking information. Although it is the BU's responsibility to officially make the reversal - I've seen the other umpire make the reversal plenty of times. Although not technically proper, it is really rather academic if BOTH umpires agree with regards to the reversal.

So, I'm not so sure how "out of line" the PU was. It may have been "wrong" ... but "out of line" has a completely different connotation.

Everybody knows why the call is being reversed - because of the added information provided by the PU. Nobody is being fooled. There's no mystery.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Little Papas

Thanks,
The BU did not ask for help the HU was approached by the team's coach to appeal the call a conference of umpires was called and the call was changed.

This is what happened: A ball was hit to 3rd base, the 3rd baseman threw the ball and took the 1st baseman off the bag, and he then turned and tagged the runner as he passed him by the BU called him out on the tag.

If the call was changed because of lack of vision, I could understand the HU asking if he saw the play, but the BU said he saw the play clearly and the runner was out. What do you think? Should the call stand?

The PU stepped all over his partner here. As soon as the coach came out to PU and tried to discuss the call with the PU, the PU should have immediately told him to go to the umpire who made the call. Then if the BU decided he needed help he can ask for it. After the conference it's still the BU's call to make. Also I'm not sure how you were privy to what was discussed during the conference. If a conference is done using proper decorum, it's to be held away from the coaches and players out of their ear shot.


Tim.

[Thom Coste]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

If the BU requested a conference ...
David Emerling
Memphis, TN

But he didn't. The "assistance" was unsolicited. The plate umpire was out of line. And had he done that to me he would have been told to buzz off.

Memphis, you would think it's OK because you are a rat, and you have demonstrated that you like to throw other umpires under the bus.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by Thom Coste

But he didn't. The "assistance" was unsolicited. The plate umpire was out of line. And had he done that to me he would have been told to buzz off.

Memphis, you would think it's OK because you are a rat, and you have demonstrated that you like to throw other umpires under the bus.

Eaaaasy ...

Geez, is somebody not taking their medication?

If the BU didn't call for a conference then, yes, the PU was "out of line."

My gosh, were you sexually abused by your LL coach when you were 10-yrs-old or something? Get some help, man.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[mcrowder]

It's entirely possible that BU was a rookie, and didn't know he could ask for help. PU could have simply went to BU after being asked (yes, this is not proper 99% of the time, but if BU was new, this could be the 1%). The conversation could have been, "Did you actually see the tag?" "No I didn't, I was blocked - did you have a better angle?" "Yes, I did, and the tag was missed. Next time, if you aren't positive, it's OK to ask for help after the play is over - you don't have to wait until coach complains." Or something along those lines.

I agree that in NORMAL circumstances, PU should keep his piehole shut unless asked by BU, and BU should be the one changing the call if there is a change to be made. But that doesn't mean that's appropriate in ALL cases. I don't think we have enough info on that.

But since there WAS a conversation between BU and PU, I find it likely that the right call was eventually made, even if it was done clumsily by this crew.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

My gosh, were you sexually abused by your LL coach when you were 10-yrs-old or something? Get some help, man.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

Congratulations. You just tied for the most ignorant response ever made on this forum.

Quite the accomplishment......and not very funny at all btw.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Thom Coste

No. It's not OK.

The base umpire made the call. He saw it, he made the call.

The plate umpire was out of line.

NO.

There was a coach driven conference - information was exchenged between the umpires - the call was changed - legit.