Umpire Call Changed

[Little Papas]

The base umpire makes an OUT call on the basepath from home to first, the homplate umpire overules his call and calls him safe. Can the homeplate umpire overule the call of the base umpire? If so, Why?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Little Papas

The base umpire makes an OUT call on the basepath from home to first, the homplate umpire overules his call and calls him safe. Can the homeplate umpire overule the call of the base umpire? If so, Why?

Apparently, he can and did.

Taking you at your word that is was an "overrule", it's not proper, though.

Now, maybe it really was PU's call. In that case, his call would stand. Or, maybe BU asked for help. In that case, it should be BU who changes his call, but the effect is the same.

[JRutledge]

Could you give us an example of what happen?

Peace

[Little Papas]

Thanks,
The BU did not ask for help the HU was approached by the team's coach to appeal the call a conference of umpires was called and the call was changed.

This is what happened: A ball was hit to 3rd base, the 3rd baseman threw the ball and took the 1st baseman off the bag, and he then turned and tagged the runner as he passed him by the BU called him out on the tag.

If the call was changed because of lack of vision, I could understand the HU asking if he saw the play, but the BU said he saw the play clearly and the runner was out. What do you think? Should the call stand?

[Rich Ives]

a conference of umpires was called and the call was changed.


Well that's different from what you initially described. It's probably OK in that case as infomation was exchanged and the call revised.

[Thom Coste]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

a conference of umpires was called and the call was changed.


Well that's different from what you initially described. It's probably OK in that case as infomation was exchanged and the call revised.

No. It's not OK.

The base umpire made the call. He saw it, he made the call.

The plate umpire was out of line.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by Thom Coste

No. It's not OK.

The base umpire made the call. He saw it, he made the call.

The plate umpire was out of line.

If the BU requested a conference then, clearly, he was seeking information. Although it is the BU's responsibility to officially make the reversal - I've seen the other umpire make the reversal plenty of times. Although not technically proper, it is really rather academic if BOTH umpires agree with regards to the reversal.

So, I'm not so sure how "out of line" the PU was. It may have been "wrong" ... but "out of line" has a completely different connotation.

Everybody knows why the call is being reversed - because of the added information provided by the PU. Nobody is being fooled. There's no mystery.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Thom Coste

No. It's not OK.

The base umpire made the call. He saw it, he made the call.

The plate umpire was out of line.

NO.

There was a coach driven conference - information was exchenged between the umpires - the call was changed - legit.

[JRutledge]

So we have a play at first and the BU made a call and the PU came and "overruled" the original call. Well the PU cannot do unless he wants anarchy. I guess he did it and the call was changed, I just know some umpires that might walk off the field if an umpire did that to his partner.

Peace

[Justme]

Originally Posted by Little Papas

Thanks,
The BU did not ask for help the HU was approached by the team's coach to appeal the call a conference of umpires was called and the call was changed.

This is what happened: A ball was hit to 3rd base, the 3rd baseman threw the ball and took the 1st baseman off the bag, and he then turned and tagged the runner as he passed him by the BU called him out on the tag.

If the call was changed because of lack of vision, I could understand the HU asking if he saw the play, but the BU said he saw the play clearly and the runner was out. What do you think? Should the call stand?

PU's are often asked by a coach to talk with his partner because he didn't like his partners call. In your situation I would say something like "It's his call coach."

The coach has to convince my partner to ask me for help. If he does then I tell my partner what I saw BUT I can not change his call. The BU made the call and he has to be the one to change it.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Little Papas

Thanks,
The BU did not ask for help the HU was approached by the team's coach to appeal the call a conference of umpires was called and the call was changed.

This is what happened: A ball was hit to 3rd base, the 3rd baseman threw the ball and took the 1st baseman off the bag, and he then turned and tagged the runner as he passed him by the BU called him out on the tag.

If the call was changed because of lack of vision, I could understand the HU asking if he saw the play, but the BU said he saw the play clearly and the runner was out. What do you think? Should the call stand?

The PU stepped all over his partner here. As soon as the coach came out to PU and tried to discuss the call with the PU, the PU should have immediately told him to go to the umpire who made the call. Then if the BU decided he needed help he can ask for it. After the conference it's still the BU's call to make. Also I'm not sure how you were privy to what was discussed during the conference. If a conference is done using proper decorum, it's to be held away from the coaches and players out of their ear shot.


Tim.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Little Papas

Thanks,
The BU did not ask for help the HU was approached by the team's coach to appeal the call a conference of umpires was called and the call was changed.

This is what happened: A ball was hit to 3rd base, the 3rd baseman threw the ball and took the 1st baseman off the bag, and he then turned and tagged the runner as he passed him by the BU called him out on the tag.

If the call was changed because of lack of vision, I could understand the HU asking if he saw the play, but the BU said he saw the play clearly and the runner was out. What do you think? Should the call stand?

Dave:

Above you'll see the fourth post in this thread quoted. This made it pretty clear that the coach went to the PU and the PU inappropriately conferred with his partner without solocitation. I would imagine he was upset that you would even think about defending such an act by another umpire. I do agree with you that his comments were harsh and uncalled for, but is there a possibility there's a history between the two of you?


Tim.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Dave:

Above you'll see the fourth post in this thread quoted. This made it pretty clear that the coach went to the PU and the PU inappropriately conferred with his partner without solocitation. I would imagine he was upset that you would even think about defending such an act by another umpire. I do agree with you that his comments were harsh and uncalled for, but is there a possibility there's a history between the two of you?

Tim.

OK, fair enough. I missed that. No big deal. I would have thought he could have pointed that out to me in a more civil manner, much like you are doing.

Yet, my post began with this sentence: "If the BU requested a conference then, clearly, he was seeking information. Although it is the BU's responsibility to officially make the reversal - I've seen the other umpire make the reversal plenty of times. Although not technically proper, it is really rather academic if BOTH umpires agree with regards to the reversal."

It seems to me all he had to say was, "The BU didn't request a conference!"

My comment on the subject was rather general, anyways.

I'm not sure his personal and caustic remark was appropriate. It certainly didn't have anything to do with what we were discussing.

Is there "history" between us? Heck, I don't know. Apparently so. I don't keep track. But comments like that always seem to come from a select group of umpires who simply can't stand coaches. Why? - I don't know.

I thought the thread was progressing rather civilly until he made those remarks, wouldn't you agree?

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[SanDiegoSteve]

David, I believe the only thing any of us are questioning is the sexual abuse comment you made. It did not add to the discussion, and quite frankly, we have come to expect a bit more from you.

[David B]

Originally Posted by Little Papas

Thanks,
The BU did not ask for help the HU was approached by the team's coach to appeal the call a conference of umpires was called and the call was changed.

This is what happened: A ball was hit to 3rd base, the 3rd baseman threw the ball and took the 1st baseman off the bag, and he then turned and tagged the runner as he passed him by the BU called him out on the tag.

If the call was changed because of lack of vision, I could understand the HU asking if he saw the play, but the BU said he saw the play clearly and the runner was out. What do you think? Should the call stand?

The proper way to handle these type of situations is when the coach comes to the PU, he should be sent to the BU.

Then if the BU wants to seek further information he can ask for a conference with his PU.

Some are too quick to point out the haste the PU had and thats legit.

Sounds like the BU was out of position (big mistake) or a young umpire who didn't know what to do next.

But its so easy for spectators to jump to conclusions. Heard the exact same thing on the radio the other night as I returned from my playoff game.

Announcer: throw to first and the BU doesn't see the play and asks the PU to make the call (ugh)

Either bad mechanics or as usual the announcer didn't know what he was talking about.

WHat do they say, perception is sometimes reality...

Thanks
David