CAN AN UMPIRE EVER CHANGE HIS/HER CALL?

mary4 · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 14, 2004, 05:39pm

We had a situation at my son's all star game where the baserunner was clearly out at first for the 3rd out and the ump went to call him out but suddenly called him safe. Should we have appealed to the home plate umpire and if so what do you think the odds would have been for the ump to change his call? The call cost us the game, it was a tie score bottom of the 6th and while we thought the runner was out which would have been the 3rd out after the ump called him safe the runner on third scored and game was over. What a way to lose a game!!!

JRutledge · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 14, 2004, 05:51pm

Quote:

Originally posted by mary4
We had a situation at my son's all star game where the baserunner was clearly out at first for the 3rd out and the ump went to call him out but suddenly called him safe. Should we have appealed to the home plate umpire and if so what do you think the odds would have been for the ump to change his call? The call cost us the game, it was a tie score bottom of the 6th and while we thought the runner was out which would have been the 3rd out after the ump called him safe the runner on third scored and game was over. What a way to lose a game!!!

We have debated this from time to time. But in this case, the answer is no. If the base umpire made a call, you have to stick with it. You can ask the Plate Umpire all you like, but he cannot change the call that was made. You do not see a Base Umpire changing balls and strikes do you? Of course not, same with this call.

And if this call truly cost you the game, I can assume that no one made and error. You know hits were made by the other team. Or I am sure that no one was put out on your team. It might have been big, but if you deserved to win, you can overcome one wrong call if you ask me.

Peace

akalsey · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 14, 2004, 06:54pm

An official's call never costs a team the game. I'm saying this as a multi-sport coach. In your case it may have felt that way because the call came at a crucial moment. The call eliminated your chance of scoring another run and thus winning the game. But that out was only one of many during the course of the game. If you had any one of those outs back, you might have been able to win.

You don't blame a kid and say their inning-ending stikeout with the bases loaded cost the team the game because that out was only one. You don't say that the error by F6 that allowed the runner to move into scoring position cost you the game. Likewise a single call (or even multiple calls) by an official doesn't cost you the game. It might put you at a disadvantage, but no more so than other things that occur during a game.

During a soccer game once, we had a variety of bad calls from the refs. Most seemed to go against us, although the opposing coach probably thought they mostly were against him. But we also had a variety of mistakes by the players, including a forward tripping over his feet while shooting from 4 feet at a completly open goal. If that hadn't happened, we would have won, despite the calls from the officials.

[Edited by akalsey on Jul 14th, 2004 at 11:02 PM]

WindyCityBlue · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 14, 2004, 09:37pm

Mary,
I'm a little curious. Your very first post here was VERY recent, correct? You were curious how one would go about finding certfied umpires for your area. Now, you post a question about an umpire's judgement from yur son's game last evening. Hmmm, it does seem a tad out of sorts, doesn't it?

An umpire is only as good as his last call. It seems that his last call didn't go your way. Life is kind of funny that way. Considering how the first post leaves me feeling a litlle deceived, I'm not sure that I should be offering this advice. An umpire who makes a safe call and then asks for help is certainly allowed. If his partner waits until the play is dead and then confers with him because there is a serious doubt in his mind as to the call (for instance -umpires have been known to signal one thing and verbalize another!) then that would be all right. Regardless of what many fans, coaches and athletes may think, we do try to get the call right. Did you ask the umpire why he ruled him safe? Maybe under the pressure of the game, he saw a foot come off the bag or a juggled ball. We were not there, but in what capacity were you at the game? I'm not saying that his call was correct, none of us know that. But, I would love to be able to make every one of my calls from the stands or the dugout. Surely you didn't think that we would hang the kid, without hearing more.

Baseball_North · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 15, 2004, 06:04pm

My philosophy is that if I, as an umpire, make more errors than the team questioning the call, then it is more justified. In this situation (which barely happens, because there are usually at least a few defensive errors, baserunning blunders, etc...), the umpire may have very well "costed" the team a game.

However, most of the time the team has made errors during the game too. That is the hard part about umpiring. You are supposed to always be perfect. It doesn't happen with the players, and it doesn't happen with the umpires. The worst is a team that has booted the ball around all game, got picked off bases.... comes out to challenge a close call that you have made.

woolnojg · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 15, 2004, 10:53pm

In order.
No. You should appeal to the base ump. Ask him to check with the plate.
Then, live with the answer.

PeteBooth · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Jul 16, 2004, 10:40am

Originally posted by mary4

We had a situation at my son's all star game where the baserunner was clearly out at first for the 3rd out and the ump went to call him out but suddenly called him safe. Should we have appealed to the home plate umpire and if so what do you think the odds would have been for the ump to change his call? The call cost us the game, it was a tie score bottom of the 6th and while we thought the runner was out which would have been the 3rd out after the ump called him safe the runner on third scored and game was over. What a way to lose a game!!!

For any of us who have umpired "over the years" received a dime for every time we heard "hey Blue that one cost us the game" we could all retire.

As Windy said we do our best to get the calls right, but here is a FACT of LIFE WE WILL NOT The best of the best make mistakes and so will we. However, if one analyses the entire game, there are many factors that contribute to a loss.

How many men / women were left on base? Did your outfielders ALWAYS hit the cut-off person preventing a runner from taking the extra base? How many errors were committed? These are just a few of the factors.

If you want to blame blue for your loss, then go ahead, but if one does not CORRECT the real problem, it's a good bet that the losses will keep piling up.

Pete Booth

ozzy6900 · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Jul 16, 2004, 11:10am

Ahh, one of the sweetest strains in the mid-summer wind:

Coach: "Hey Blue, that call cost us the game"

Me: "Coach, if your entire game hinges on one of my calls, then you didn't do your job!"

WindyCityBlue · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Jul 16, 2004, 02:33pm

Did ya'll notice that our thread starter never answered my questions? She came here nice like and posed a question we were all too happy to answer. Then, BLAM! the real reason. An umpire ruled against her son's team and she needs advice on redress. Stop humoring her.

akalsey · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Jul 16, 2004, 02:54pm

Maybe Mary4 is really Windy, JR, or Rut and just wanted to stir up trouble.

Nah.