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Old Thu Apr 13, 2006, 11:33pm
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I don't work baseball, but I disagree telling him to move up is coaching. That's similar in basketball to saying "this is a spot throw in, so stay put" or "you can run the line." Or even, "blue 23, get your hands off."

There's also guys in football that think its coaching to tell players on the end who are supposed to be on the line (or off of it) to move up or get back, as the case may be. Although I agree that you should limit such discussion above, say, 9th grade games, I still don't think its coaching. I'm going to tell the defender he's offsides if he's lined up in the neutral zone and I have a chance to. If he doesn't get back, I'll throw a flag just like I would if the offense stays in an illegal formation.

I don't think its coaching unless you, by your actions or statements, are giving one team a clear advantage over the other. Telling a kid to "lay off that curve ball because I'm not calling a strike on it" is one thing. Telling a catcher to move up when he may not be aware he's too far back is another. If he's missing balls, that's affecting you as an umpire. The kid swinging isn't affecting you.
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Old Fri Apr 14, 2006, 01:08am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie
I don't work baseball, but I disagree telling him to move up is coaching. That's similar in basketball to saying "this is a spot throw in, so stay put" or "you can run the line."
I don't agree with your examples. In your basketball case, you informing the player of the rule governing the play. Also, they don't get to choose where they take the ball out. That too is decided by rule.

In baseball, the rule is the catcher must be in the catcher's box, period. There is no rule as to the exact position he must be in inside the box. Just like a batter.

I don't agree with telling the catcher where to set-up, for all the reasons already stated against it. Besides, how the heck do I know what pitch the pitcher is going to throw, and where the catcher should set up for it ? Then, there are the catchers who start out in one spot, then move to the spot they need to be after the pitcher begins their motion.

Telling the catcher where to be is worse than coaching, it's controlling the game. If you put the catcher in the wrong place, you could make a strike look like a ball, and vise versa.
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Old Fri Apr 14, 2006, 09:03am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie
I don't work baseball, but I disagree telling him to move up is coaching. That's similar in basketball to saying "this is a spot throw in, so stay put" or "you can run the line." Or even, "blue 23, get your hands off."
No. Telling the catcher to move up so you can get a better view is like you telling the center to stop posting up because he's getting in your way.

The players play. We umpire. The first time you tell a catcher to move up for your convenience, and he has a passed ball because he's not where he is used to being, you've negatively affected the game. I have no problem with (if asked) telling a coach that bad positioning by the catcher is causing your position behind the catcher to be not ideal, so it's possible you're missing some strikes. But telling the CATCHER to move is wrong.

Early in my career, in a game I was observing, an old smitty PU told a catcher to move up twice, and on the very next pitch, the batter hit the catcher's glove hard. Catcher had to be replaced, by a kid who had no idea what he was doing back there. Coach had to be replaced, as his (justified, in my mind) tirade at PU was rather protracted. And when all the facts came to the board, the umpire was reprimanded.
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Old Sat Apr 15, 2006, 03:25am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrowder
No. Telling the catcher to move up so you can get a better view is like you telling the center to stop posting up because he's getting in your way.

The players play. We umpire. The first time you tell a catcher to move up for your convenience, and he has a passed ball because he's not where he is used to being, you've negatively affected the game. I have no problem with (if asked) telling a coach that bad positioning by the catcher is causing your position behind the catcher to be not ideal, so it's possible you're missing some strikes. But telling the CATCHER to move is wrong.

Early in my career, in a game I was observing, an old smitty PU told a catcher to move up twice, and on the very next pitch, the batter hit the catcher's glove hard. Catcher had to be replaced, by a kid who had no idea what he was doing back there. Coach had to be replaced, as his (justified, in my mind) tirade at PU was rather protracted. And when all the facts came to the board, the umpire was reprimanded.
Well, I must disagree. As I said, I don't tell high school catchers, or American Legion catchers, or college catchers, or adult league catchers where to position themselves. They already know what they are doing. I am talking about lower level kids that have no clue of how to actually catch a baseball, and that expect me to catch it for them on EVERY OTHER PITCH!!! I have asked (never demanded) or suggested to (never insisted on) catchers to move up a little (not to where they would stick their stupid gloves into the bat path) for going on 21 years now.

I will tell a catcher, "hey, you are costing your pitcher some strikes by being so far back, and if you can manage it, you should get in closer, buddy." That is more or less how I handle it. Or, I just move up a foot while he's throwing it back to the pitcher, and then he will just have to adjust now, won't he?

I've never gotten a kid injured, nor have a rash of passed balls developed from it (any more than were already occurring every other pitch), an in fact improved the quality of most of their catching, and gave their pitchers a target that they could actually see without binoculars, thus less passed balls, not more.

Like I said before, I have had many young catchers thank me profusely for "wising them up" as Ward Cleaver would say. They have, on many occasions when thanking me, told me that their coach never took the time to show them anything.

I never have just worked HS ball and that's all, like some guys do. I worked and still do work at every level of amateur baseball where they use an umpire. The younger players (12 and younger) occasionally need a little mechanical help, which often, sadly enough, does not come from their coaches.
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