Issued my first Forfeit yesterday

[mick]

Attaboy, Nick !!!

[tmp44]

Originally Posted by mick

Attaboy, Nick !!!

Nick,

What Mick said. I know one thing, if were you, the next time I saw your "partner," I'd ask him what in the hell he was doing....and I probably wouldn't be that nice.

[TussAgee11]

I was taught never to forfeit a game under any circumstances. Eject if you have to, suspend play at the worst. Leave the field, call your assignor. That way the league can make a decision. The umpire never has the right to forfeit a game under any circumstance. Leave that up to the league. Suspend the game, leave the field, let the league guys figure it out. Make sure you write everything down right away to give them an accurate report, so you don't miss anything.

Your partner failed you miserably. Doesn't sound like much of a team out there. Talk to your assignor about that too.

Lastly, keep the game ball. Who cares. A prize for all the hell you went through.

[big]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

I was taught never to forfeit a game under any circumstances.

Fed rules which most of my games are played under state "no coach-no game." Automatic forfiet.

I've been taught just the opposite of TussAgee11. If you eject a player or coach and they refuse to leave the field forfiet the game. If there is no allowance (threat) for forfeit why would a coach or player take you or your ejection serious?

I will say that in the past ten years I've only ever forfeited one game because the coach refused to leave. Around here all of the coaches know the law of the land. When your ejected, leave! If not wait a couple of minutes and you can take the rest of the team with you!

[umpduck11]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

The umpire never has the right to forfeit a game under any circumstance.

OBR:
If that is so, why does section 2 include the definition
of forfeited game ?
Also 3.11 case book notes, 3.18 case book, 4.15(a) - 4.15(g),
4.16,4.17.

9.04(a) The umpire-in-chief shall stand behind the catcher.
His duties shall be to:

(6) Decide when a game shall be forfeited


Edited for clarity.

[TussAgee11]

Ok, No-coach, you got 15 minutes. That's in FED.

For a coach not leaving the field? Don't utter the word forfeit. You tell go tell an assistant coach, after ejecting the manager, that "Ok coach, who's going to be your manager for the rest of the game. (wait for reply), OK, he needs to get the former manager to leave, because until he is out of my sight and sound, we are not starting this game. If he doesn't comply with this, we will wait. It is your best interest to get this game back underway, otherwise this game will be SUSPENDED and I will call the league president and my assigner about this situation. There will be far more repercussions for you and your team if I have to SUSPEND this game. Thankyou. (walk away)"

He doesn't like that? Toss him too. Then go to the next coach, right down the line until you got none left. Then say "you got 15 minutes to present a certified coach, and I want to see his documents (each state varies on this part)". Stand quietly on the line, if the situation gets out of control say "this game is suspended and both teams will be notified about its outcome by the league." Walk off the field, get in your car, drive away, park a mile down the road, and change.

Thats how I learned it. More than open to constructive critisisms from NCAA or JUCO umpires, or experienced FED umps. This is how I was taught from an NCAA umpire at a clinic, I'm not just making this up, so don't shoot me for it.

[DG]

[QUOTE=TussAgee11]For a coach not leaving the field? Don't utter the word forfeit. You tell go tell an assistant coach, after ejecting the manager, that "Ok coach, who's going to be your manager for the rest of the game. (wait for reply), OK, he needs to get the former manager to leave, because until he is out of my sight and sound, we are not starting this game. If he doesn't comply with this, we will wait. It is your best interest to get this game back underway, otherwise this game will be SUSPENDED and I will call the league president and my assigner about this situation. There will be far more repercussions for you and your team if I have to SUSPEND this game. Thankyou. (walk away)"
The only forfeit I have ever had, was in a 13-14 youth league game when I tossed the head coach, and at first he would not leave the dugout. I told the lead assistant (he had several, but I knew who was next in line) to get rid of him. The assistant was able to talk him into leaving, he left the dugout and stationed himself at the top of a walkway about 100 feet behind the dugout hollering coaching instructions down to the assistant. When I told him he had to be in the parking lot, out of sight and where we could not hear him he said the magic words to me and I forfeited the game. It was something along the lines of "you can't make me do anything, followed by a comment about me making the big bucks to umpire and I should learn the rules". They were losing 12-5 in the 5th at the time. From toss to forfeit was about 5 minutes. I can't imagine taking 15 to get there.

[RPatrino]

I think the 15 minutes might be in reference to the time you wait from game time for a team to field a team?

Bob P.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

The umpire never has the right to forfeit a game under any circumstance.

I don't work baseball anymore but even I know better than that.

You might want to buy a rule book and read it.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I don't work baseball anymore but even I know better than that.

You might want to buy a rule book and read it.

Matter of fact, this is one of the places where the umpire-in-chief has authority over other umpires on the crew....

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

The umpire never has the right to forfeit a game under any circumstance.

Tuss,

I believe what people have a problem with is your use of the words "never" and "any circumstance." There most certainly are circumstances in which an umpire has not only the right, but the obligation to forfeit games.

[TussAgee11]

I'm just telling you what I was taught.

There are plenty of stuff in the rulebook that sometimes we go against because its "code", if you know what I mean.

Don't shoot me about it, I told you I wanted constructive critisism, however some of you can't do that without blaming me for what I was taught...

Sorry for having been in a bad clinic or something cause its clearly my fault...

I was told this was a code of the umpire not to forfeit games.

[Tim C]

I cannot picture a situation, when working with tuskagee11, where we could face the possibility of a forfeit.

We would both understand how to get around the "career killing" option of ending a game prematurely.

HOWEVER, I had a forfeit just last summer.

Lah Me!

Regards,

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Tim C

I cannot picture a situation, when working with tuskagee11, where we could face the possibility of a forfeit.

We would both understand how to get around the "career killing" option of ending a game prematurely.

HOWEVER, I had a forfeit just last summer.

Lah Me!

Regards,

Hmmmmm, let's see......one team only has 7 players prior to the game. 15 minutes after the scheduled start time, they still only have 7 players. The umpire-in-chief declares the game a forfeit. There. That is one example of a circumstance in which an umpire can, and must, forfeit a game. There are many others.

TussAgee, this is the only thing we have a problem with. You said "never" and that just ain't right. That is "constructive criticism," that you should be careful when using absolutes such as "all," "never," and "always," since there is usually an exception to these absolutes.

I think a better rule of thumb would be to never forfeit a game unless there is no other option available. That would have made your clinician's statement correct.

[nickrego]

but there are times when we don't have a choice.

For my situation, our league rules are quite clear.

Lets look at another situation;

Say a team can not field enough players to start a game or inning (varies with leagues). That is an automatic forfeit, which is declared by the UIC. No option or choices.

Maybe someone should start an "All the ways to earn a Forfeit" thread. You know, like they do for advancing to 1st base, over, and over, and over again.

By the way, in our part of the world, we give an ejected player / coach 60 seconds to leave the field, or the game is over. That is backed by the commissioner. I think someone posted 15 minutes ! A lot can happen to an official in 15 minutes. And 15 minutes is a long time for someone to incite the crowd or other players against you, and a long time to work themselves up to do something they normally wouldn't do. Getting them off the field ASAP is not only in the best interest of the umpire and the game, but also the one being ejected. In my experience, 60 seconds takes forever.

And for those of you who don't get the point of my post...The assistant coach caused the forfeit, not me. I just handed him, and his team, their hats. A career ending forfeit is one that is administered for the wrong reason, or not in line with the rules. I followed the rules, as is evident by the commissioner upholding the forfeit.

My dad taught me to avoid pulling your gun at all costs, but if you do, pull the trigger without hesitation !