Scab Umpires

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Joe:

Who did I insult? Who did a call a name? I thought using professional and ethical conduct as a reason for not crossing a picket line good and logical reasons for my position.

MTD, Sr.

You used the term “scab” in the title of this thread. That is too much for guys like Joe to handle.

Peace

[PWL]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Joe:

Who did I insult? Who did a call a name? I thought using professional and ethical conduct as a reason for not crossing a picket line good and logical reasons for my position.

MTD, Sr.

Mark,

Don't worry about this fool. That's right Joe, I called you a name. I'm glad you live in an Utopia when everything in life is fair and just. People that cross picket lines to work are just that, low life, bottom feeder, scumbag, SCABS. You can slice it and dice anyway you want, but when you put the puzzle back together again you get the same picture.

Why do you think the AMLU went on strike, JoJo? Because the powers that be at PBUC care about their employees. Not hardly. Just because you don't understand the union mindset and the brotherhood. I should know, because I spent my entire working career dealing with labor/management issues. I have yet to see management ever come to a bargaining table even remotely to bargain in good faith. Nine out of ten times, their original proposals include cuts in benefits and cost of living raises, etc.

So, if a little name calling is too harsh for you I suggest you not read anymore of these quips from posters with strong opinions. You seem to be so easily offended.

If they wanted to replace the striking umpires they should have put this ad in the paper.

WANTED POTENTIAL MAJOR LEAGUE UMPIRES. PEOPLE WITH LITTLE OR NO EXPERIENCE. MUST BE WILLING TO TRAVEL. STARTING PAY, MINIMAL. SOME BENEFITS. LOW PER DIEM. MUST BE ABLE TO HANDLE STRESSFUL SITUATIONS AT ALL TIMES. DEALING WITH UNREASONABLE PEOPLE A MUST. MUST PAY FOR OWN UNIFORMS AND EQUIPMENT. NO OVERTIME. COMPLETE KNOWLEDGE OF RULES AND MECHANICS NECCASSARY. IF INTERESTED CALL BR5-49 FOR MORE DETAILS ON HOW YOU CAN BECOME BIG LEAGUE MATERIAL.

[socalblue1]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Joe:

Who did I insult? Who did a call a name? I thought using professional and ethical conduct as a reason for not crossing a picket line good and logical reasons for my position.

MTD, Sr.

Mark,

It's no use trying to change their mind, because no matter what you say they aren’t going to budge.

This debate began when some inflammatory posts (None by AMLU members to my knowledge) were made in support of the strike. Yes, the umpires crossing the picket line are ‘Scabs’ by most accepted definitions. The content of some of the posts are unsupportable and simply do not in any way track with what AMLU is trying to do (Educate and inform).

I can say that there HAVE been both derogatory and supportive comments made by club staff. While these have not been posted publicly or in news articles, they HAVE been made.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by PWL

Mark,

Don't worry about this fool. That's right Joe, I called you a name. I'm glad you live in an Utopia when everything in life is fair and just. People that cross picket lines to work are just that, low life, bottom feeder, scumbag, SCABS. You can slice it and dice anyway you want, but when you put the puzzle back together again you get the same picture.

Why do you think the AMLU went on strike, JoJo? Because the powers that be at PBUC care about their employees. Not hardly. Just because you don't understand the union mindset and the brotherhood. I should know, because I spent my entire working career dealing with labor/management issues. I have yet to see management ever come to a bargaining table even remotely to bargain in good faith. Nine out of ten times, their original proposals include cuts in benefits and cost of living raises, etc.

So, if a little name calling is too harsh for you I suggest you not read anymore of these quips from posters with strong opinions. You seem to be so easily offended.

If they wanted to replace the striking umpires they should have put this ad in the paper.

PWL,

The union movement's inability and/or unwillingness to communicate with civility and thoughtfulness is why their cause loses more often than it used to. Just look back at your post.

You refuse to acknowledge the simple fact that intelligent and respectful arguments will work far better than the type of talk that you are engaged in.

You have very little chance of persuading undecided umpires and even less chance of changing the minds of some that have already worked in the Minor Leagues this year. One would think that getting support for your cause would be your goal. Clearly, this is not the case.

I hope you enjoy the continuing deterioration of the Union movement in the USA-your method of communication is a large part of why you have less public support as each day goes by.

Joe

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

You refuse to acknowledge the simple fact that intelligent and respectful arguments will work far better than the type of talk that you are engaged in.

I am very willing to turn the page on this issue and with you personally. I just think that you are absolutely nuts if you think people are going to use language that only fits your personal expectations. This issue is bigger than one word and has emotional elements to it. I have personally talked directly to a few minor league umpires and I have worked other sports with them. The term they use is "scab." One of my parents in a union and has been for years and feels similar to union issues as these umpires do. I know many officials that belong to contractor unions and teacher's union and they feel similar to what these umpires are going through. Sorry if you do not want emotion or certain language into this discussion, it is not going to happen.

Peace

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by PWL

I can't help about the shape I'm in.
I can't sing, I ain't pretty and my legs are thin.
But don't ask me what I think of you.
I might not give the answer that you what me to.

OH WELL

Now, when I talked to God I knew he'd understand.
He said, "Stand by my side and I'll be your guiding hand.
But don't don't ask me what I think of you.
I might not give the answer that you want me to".

OH WELL

Nothing like a song for every occassion.

Fleetwood Mac is always good with dip.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Okay, this is how it is:

People with strong union backgrounds in their families or personal lives tend to support any and all unions, simply because they are unions. They support all strikes against the big, bad, unfair meanies in management, regardless of their merit.

People with non-union, or even more so, anti-union stances are not supposed to have an opinion when it comes to the issue of unions. Not being union members, why how could they possibly relate to the plight of labor in these cases? So, the union supporters tend to disregard anyone with an opposing viewpoint. They are just ignorant and uninformed "scab lovers" with no clue.

The unions I am familiar with here in San Diego have gone on strike, and not garnered much support from the non-union public. The "scab" labor comes in, management thumbs their noses at the union members, the union reps end up getting much less than they wanted at the bargaining table, and the workers return to work with their tails between their legs. This is the exact pattern of events in the grocery workers' strike we had here recently.

The bottom line is, while unions have done magnificent things for all workers over this nation's history, there are times when striking is not effective. I feel this is one of those times.

Nobody twisted the MiLB umpires' arms to accept the slave labor wages they get paid. If you want a shot at the majors, then this is the only road leading there. Take it or leave it, that's what management's position is. You are there to prepare yourself for a possible career in baseball, which is not in the minor leagues.

I wish that the management would pay the minor league guys a heck of a lot more than they do. The wages are deplorable. It is downright sinful to expect these guys to try to live on this paltry sum of money, and lack of decent benefits. However, these umpires did agree to these terms when they signed their contracts, and I think that is the issue that the non-union and anti-union crowd is pointing out. I also think that striking right now will hurt their chances of bringing a change to the system, rather than help them.

Here is the view from non-union laborers: If a non-union employee told his boss he wanted x-amount more money or he was going to walk, the boss would gleefully tell him not to let the door hit him in the butt on the way out.

This is why non-union employees have little sympathy for strikers, because they can't strike themselves. They can't completely understand the concept of accepting a contract, and then saying the contract isn't good enough anymore. That strategy worked for Terrell Owens, because their was another team that wanted him. Dallas said sure, T.O., we'll pay you the money you wanted in Philly. There is no other team for these umpires, so their threats aren't taken seriously.

[Kaliix]

If I read this thread right, the union isn't striking. They don't have a contract in the first place, since their contract expired. Striking implies that you are leaving a job that you had in the first place. MiLB has no contract. They refused to accept the terms they were offered by Baseball.

So if they don't have a job to begin with, how are the people who are taking the available unfilled jobs, scabs? These "replacement" umpires haven't been asked to join a union, and since there isn't a strike due to their not being a contract - none of those definitions apply. If they aren't working for less than the union was working for, none of the scab definitions apply.

And why should anyone support a union that wouldn't accept them into their ranks in the first place? We, the union, don't want you, wouldn't take you, and don't really care about what you plight in life is. So tell me why anyone should support your union again?

[LMan]

Well, if there is no contract, then why is the AMLU 'picketing' the replacements?

How can you 'cross a line' if there's no contract to violate?

I'm sure some union-savvy people can break this down for me.

[BigUmp56]

It's not a violation of union by-laws for a non member to cross a picket line. That wouldn't make much sense as a non union individual isn't bound by a collective bargaining agreement. If ,after the AMLU's case is heard by the NLRB, the union is de-certified, then it still wouldn't be a violation for former members to cross either.

Even if a union member were to cross there could be no legal reprecussions against them. They would simply lose their membership or be forced to pay a fine to stay a member in some unions. I can't say for sure though as I've not read their contract. In our union the only way to take away someones union membership is for non payment of dues.

[PWL]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

It's not a violation of union by-laws for a non member to cross a picket line. That wouldn't make much sense as a non union individual isn't bound by a collective bargaining agreement. If ,after the AMLU's case is heard by the NLRB, the union is de-certified, then it still wouldn't be a violation for former members to cross either.

Even if a union member were to cross there could be no legal reprecussions against them. They would simply lose their membership or be forced to pay a fine to stay a member in some unions. I can't say for sure though as I've not read their contract. In our union the only way to take away someones union membership is for non payment of dues.

That must be one heck of a union you're in. No wonder everybody is down on unions these days. Seems that it's in your contract that you can sit around 24/7 posting on umpire forums. Must be good work if you can get it. Wait a minute, nobody ever could have a job that good. I get it now. You don't have a job. You were fired for posting on umpire forums 24/7. Work just getting the way of your first real love. Oh well, at least your happy. Starving, but happy.

[BigUmp56]

I don't recall tugging on your chain, PWL. Why the insult against the union I still belong to? You must be thinking, hey, I can make another childish insulting post because it's Easter and it won't be deleted for a while. Will you just grow up already.


Tim.

[PWL]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I don't recall tugging on your chain, PWL. Why the insult against the union I still belong to? You must be thinking, hey, I can make another childish insulting post because it's Easter and it won't be deleted for a while. Will you just grow up already.


Tim.

Is there anything you don't know everything about? Do like Lard Steve and put me on your IGNORE LIST. That's what's it there for. Take responsibility for once in your life for your obsessive complusive disorder.

Go spend some time with your family and stop being an "Internet Charlie".

Peace

[BigUmp56]

I've said it before, just recently. I would put you on my ignore list but then what fun would that be. I would miss you tripping all over youself as you give your nonsensical interpretations and outright wrong rulings. I don't know why it bothers you that someone else knows more than you do, as this has to be common place for you in your everyday life. That is, unless it's about your inate ability to copy song lyrics. I'd say you have that down to an art form.

Tim.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

That is, unless it's about your inate ability to copy song lyrics. I'd say you have that down to an art form.

No, Tim, he even gets those wrong. In "Oh, Well" it is "stick by me and I'll be your guiding hand." He missed that one too.