Positions B and C

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally posted by nickrego
Runner on 1st: B
Standard

Runner on 2nd: C
Standard

Runner on 3rd: B
Puts me closer to 1st (where the play is most likely)
Calling a “Pick-Play” at 3rd is no different from
calling a “Pick-Play” at 1st from C

Runner on 1st & 2nd: C
Standard

Runner on 1st & 3rd: B
Puts me in position for a play at 1st, 2nd,
or double play at 1st & 2nd
(where the play is most likely)

Runner on 1st, 2nd & 3rd: B
Puts me in position for a play at 1st, 2nd,
or double play (where the play is most likely)

These are the preferred 2-Man mechanics of our High School association, and I prefer them.

I think Papa C. has a rhyme about being in C, but I couldn’t find it at the moment.

Something like;

B oh B, how I hate to be in C !

For 1st and 3rd, 3rd only, or bases loaded, I still prefer C, because that was the way it was taught when I learned.

The pickoff at 3rd from B is not the same as the pickoff at 1st from C. The angle you get with a runner returning to 3rd is vastly different than one returning to 1st. If the runner at first was diving back from the home plate side of the first base line, then your statement would be correct. The best angle to call a runner going back into 3rd is in C. All you have to do is turn to your right, and you have an almost perfect angle (very close to a 90 degree angle). From B, the angle is more closed (far less than an ideal 90 degrees).

I understand why many people prefer B. The argument that pickoffs at 3rd are rare, and that it's more likely that a play will be at first base is a valid argument. I personally have no problem getting from C to the proper position to make all calls at 2nd or 1st. I would have no chance on a pickoff at 3rd to get a good angle from B.

Nlump50, starting in B with a runner on 2nd only, how do you call the steal of third? You need to have an angle closer to the 3rd base line, and from B you just can't get there.

From C, all you need to do is run a few steps in and toward the line on an angle, and you are a)at a good angle to call the play, and b)much closer to the play, and less likely to have a coach in your face asking why you were so far from the play).

[nickrego]

SanDiegoSteve

I think you are correct that the pick play at 3rd is not exactly the same as at 1st.

The play at 3rd is easily made from B or C, because the runner is moving perpendicular to the umpire, so he does not block the action.

Whereas, a pick play at 1st, we need to be able to look more downward on the play to see everything, because the runner is somewhat between us and the low tag. Being closer makes it much easier.

I have called these plays from both positions, and I feel much more comfortable making them using the positioning I posted.

[NIump50]

Originally posted by SanDiegoSteve

For 1st and 3rd, 3rd only, or bases loaded, I still prefer C, because that was the way it was taught when I learned.

The pickoff at 3rd from B is not the same as the pickoff at 1st from C. The angle you get with a runner returning to 3rd is vastly different than one returning to 1st. If the runner at first was diving back from the home plate side of the first base line, then your statement would be correct. The best angle to call a runner going back into 3rd is in C. All you have to do is turn to your right, and you have an almost perfect angle (very close to a 90 degree angle). From B, the angle is more closed (far less than an ideal 90 degrees).

I understand why many people prefer B. The argument that pickoffs at 3rd are rare, and that it's more likely that a play will be at first base is a valid argument. I personally have no problem getting from C to the proper position to make all calls at 2nd or 1st. I would have no chance on a pickoff at 3rd to get a good angle from B.

Nlump50, starting in B with a runner on 2nd only, how do you call the steal of third? You need to have an angle closer to the 3rd base line, and from B you just can't get there.

From C, all you need to do is run a few steps in and toward the line on an angle, and you are a)at a good angle to call the play, and b)much closer to the play, and less likely to have a coach in your face asking why you were so far from the play).

Runner on 2nd only or 1st and second I'm in C.
I agree with all your angle concerns, but I'm confused on one point.

You said "I personally have no problem getting from C to the proper position to make all calls at 2nd or 1st....."

Tim implied that you can get from C to B on a play at first, is the proper position you are referring to B?
I don't think that is possible. I'm not saying you don't have a look, but it is not as good as B.
Here's my reasoning:
Runner on third no out, ground shot to F5, runner faking to home, not unusual. BU in C can't move toward B because you're watching for play at 3rd. F5 checks runner even fients a throw, BU has to be focused on third until F5 turns to first. When F5 turns to first BU has about 1.5 seconds, or less to get into position for the call.
Now you're making a banger call at first from across the diamond.
Personally, I'd rather be closer to first with a better angle for that play than to have the better angle at third for the rare occasions a pickoff that direction is close.
If I am misrepresenting this play please correct me.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Nlump50,

I see your point. However, on the play you are describing, the most important runner is the one closest to home plate. You need to keep all your focus on this runner until F5 actually throws to first. When you see that F5 is now going to really throw to first, you get a few steps, stop, set, see it, call it. Angle over distance on any force play. I can call a force play virtually from anywhere in the ballpark. It is the tag play that can get tricky if you don't get a good look at it.

B and C are not the positions we are to make our calls from. They are starting positions only. When I'm in C, and a ground ball to F6, I start straight in toward the mound, pivot with the play, gain ground toward 1st, and make the call from the first base side of the diamond. So, saying that you make calls from B and C is not accurate, unless you are just standing stationary and not hustling.

[NIump50]

Originally posted by SanDiegoSteve
Nlump50,

I see your point. However, on the play you are describing, the most important runner is the one closest to home plate. You need to keep all your focus on this runner until F5 actually throws to first. When you see that F5 is now going to really throw to first, you get a few steps, stop, set, see it, call it. Angle over distance on any force play. I can call a force play virtually from anywhere in the ballpark. It is the tag play that can get tricky if you don't get a good look at it.

B and C are not the positions we are to make our calls from. They are starting positions only. When I'm in C, and a ground ball to F6, I start straight in toward the mound, pivot with the play, gain ground toward 1st, and make the call from the first base side of the diamond. So, saying that you make calls from B and C is not accurate, unless you are just standing stationary and not hustling.

I don't disagree that the tag at third is of utmost importance, however it is a rare occurance. Both mechanics have poitives and negatives. It will be interesting to see if the new mechanic continues to gain momentum.
Thank you for not blatently pointing out my F5 braincramp.

[NIump50]

Originally posted by SanDiegoSteve
Nlump50,

I see your point. However, on the play you are describing, the most important runner is the one closest to home plate. You need to keep all your focus on this runner until F5 actually throws to first. When you see that F5 is now going to really throw to first, you get a few steps, stop, set, see it, call it. Angle over distance on any force play. I can call a force play virtually from anywhere in the ballpark. It is the tag play that can get tricky if you don't get a good look at it.

B and C are not the positions we are to make our calls from. They are starting positions only. When I'm in C, and a ground ball to F6, I start straight in toward the mound, pivot with the play, gain ground toward 1st, and make the call from the first base side of the diamond. So, saying that you make calls from B and C is not accurate, unless you are just standing stationary and not hustling.

I don't disagree that the tag at third is of utmost importance, however it is a rare occurance. Both mechanics have poitives and negatives. It will be interesting to see if the new mechanic continues to gain momentum.
Thank you for not blatently pointing out my F5 braincramp.

[SanDiegoSteve]

I will point out the double post, however.

[DG]

I am glad I don't work in IL or NH were umpires are forced to work in positions not endorsed by CCA, PBUC, or Fed for that matter. Sounds like they want to sacrifice the call for consistency of positioning.

[Kaliix]

Somebody posted this visual/picture last year that always helped me remember the positions to be in. I think one position wasn't textbook, but it has always worked for me.

You in B when the runners are in the following positions:

_____1st

__1st___3rd

1st__2nd__3rd


In all others you are in position C (except with no runners on, obviously). The pyramid visual helps one remember it for some reason. (Ignore the underlines, they are just for spacing so that it looks like a pyramid)

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally posted by DG
I am glad I don't work in IL or NH were umpires are forced to work in positions not endorsed by CCA, PBUC, or Fed for that matter. Sounds like they want to sacrifice the call for consistency of positioning.

Well, now I'm curious. What positions are you referring to that you're glad you're not forced to work in?

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by SanDiegoSteve

Well, now I'm curious. What positions are you referring to that you're glad you're not forced to work in?

I'm sure he means "B" with R3, R2 and R3, or bases loaded.

[officialtony]

Forgive my lack of experience on this but . . . .
does it make a difference if the pitcher is right or left handed for your location?

Or if you have a right or left handed batter?

[officialtony]

Thank you.
I have seen umpires move from B to C when a batter comes up batting left handed. I understood what they were doing, but didn't understand why they thought it was OK, if that's not how we are supposed to position ourselves.
I appreciate the response.

[DG]

A LH pitcher is an excellent reason to follow CCA and PBUC mechanic to be in B rather than FED mechanic to be in C with runners on 1st and 3rd.

[Rich]

Originally posted by DG
A LH pitcher is an excellent reason to follow CCA and PBUC mechanic to be in B rather than FED mechanic to be in C with runners on 1st and 3rd.

Why? What the heck is the difference?